New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

phylp phylpwrote:

Jim Donini is profiled - he is still tough as nails and a superb climber.  The article mentions Sybille Hechtel, but I remember meeting both her father Richard Hechtel and Jules Eichorn when I first moved to CA in 1980.  Jules would have been around 68 then, the same age I am now.  Sybille mentions that her Dad climbed into his 80s and in fact I ran into him climbing in the ORG when he was about that age.  Of course there are people like Fritz Wiessner, who also climbed into his 80s.  It's true in many other sports as well, especially those that aren't as hard on the joints.  One of my husband's cycling friends, Roque,  is 83 - in his youth he was on the Columbian National Team for cycling and he still keeps up with the group when he goes out.  

I saw Fritz Weissner climbing at the Gunks in the early 70s. Damn, that was inspiring.

Lori Milaswrote:

From the stories being told here on this thread, it sounds like there was the same kind of pecking order here ... a handful of crazy good climbers who formed an inner circle, and others stayed on the periphery and eventually moved on.  Man...I am glad I wasn't here at that time.  It sounds brutal.  NOT fun. 

And right below was an open circle that included a hippie like inclusivity that accepted all, this is what made climbing great years ago.  

Lori Milaswrote:

I've been listening to a new podcast by Alex Honnold--an interview with Peter Croft.  I've never met Peter, but I've been drawn to his great personality and skill.  Part of the story has really surprised me: when Peter first arrived at Yosemite, he felt so intimidated by the existing 'greats' (like Bachar) that he kept to himself and developed his own skills free soloing.  (I think I have this right).  In fact, I thought Alex said something similar about his own early years--that he was so shy and nerdy he climbed alone rather than to risk reaching out to other climbers.  

I’ll have to check out that new podcast.

Several years ago a buddy and I were doing a car to car climb of the East Buttress of Whitney.  We were feeling pretty good about ourselves until I looked over at Keeler Needle.  I saw a guy cruising up the Harding Route and kept waiting for him to stop and belay up his second, he never did, he kept going and disappeared over the top.   We finished our climb with plenty of sunlight and we’re headed down the Ebersbacher Ledges when I looked behind us and saw Peter Croft running down the trail towards us.  We stopped and chatted a minute.  He had climbed the E Face of Whitney then down climbed it, went over and did the Harding Route on Keeler and then climbed the East Buttress of Whitney to round out a casual day.   So much for feeling good about ourselves lol. 

wendy weisswrote:

I saw Fritz Weissner climbing at the Gunks in the early 70s. Damn, that was inspiring.

I was climbing at the Gunks 1973-1980. I'll never forget one time when I was sitting on the big ledge under the last pitch of High Exposure with a friend in a light rain. It's a nice dry sheltered place to hang out. Well, up came Fritz. He looked us over, said "It's a fine day for a climb," and exited the ledge onto the upper "High-E" pitch and was gone... 

That's a pretty wild pitch to do in the rain! 

Lori Milaswrote:

...From the stories being told here on this thread, it sounds like there was the same kind of pecking order here ... a handful of crazy good climbers who formed an inner circle, and others stayed on the periphery and eventually moved on.  Man...I am glad I wasn't here at that time.  It sounds brutal.  NOT fun...

There was more than one circle. The trick was to get to know the fun one...   

I’m feeling gratitude and joy returning.  We climbed on the left side of Dairy Queen today. The best part of climbing in the Hemingway area is to turn around on the way back and see where you just were. It’s magnificent.

Ive tried to say this different ways and screwed it up, I know. Maybe it’s not about being older, but it is about being lucky. Fortunate. No matter how hard climbing is, and the days when nothing goes right, I still think WOW, I’m here in this beautiful place doing the most unlikely thing. I’m climbing this slab, or this crack which is beyond what I ever hoped for or expected. When cars are backed up miles to get into or out of the Park I think gosh... I live here now. 

Today we climbed Leap Erickson (10b).  Everything was there. Moves hard but not impossible. Fun every inch.  On the last route I was so worn out it felt like the last 5 minutes of Rocky knocking it out with Apollo Creed.  Just punch drunk but determined.  “Yo Adrienne its rough up there in the ring!”   

Bob seems to think That Old Soft Shoe is not out of the question.  So I’ll freshen up the red t-shirt and see if I can make Dave proud. (What if Dave is not among the living anymore? I’ve been wondering this.)  I have been half expecting to receive a phone call from Dave saying “Are you the stalker who has been climbing all my routes? KNOCK IT OFF!”  

Tony’s outta here on Monday to head up to Sacramento for another MRI of his back.  Maybe there’s hope a surgery would fix this. I want him to walk. I want the best for him. 

we are in Mud season here in the north eastern US. lots of sunny warm days (while I was working) and a few rain events have left the lowlands brown and uninviteing.  I was not quite ready to give up on ice season and  having not been to parasol gully yet this season felt that an adventure was in order.   I almost never get skunked on an ice mission due to a depth of experience in what the region has to offer yet I had very low expectations for this trip which is a 300 mile round trip to the north pole.  3 hours of brown driveing did nothing to encourage my stoke.  Somewhere behind those clouds are mountains. 

Eventually I arrived at the top of Dixville notch.  I was pleasantly surprised as the climb looked in. 

As I had suspected last nights cool down had dried the ice up nicely. P1 had dried good ice. there was water running under it and a water damn at the top where it transitioned to snow but nothing that felt unduly dangerous.

Ice was excellent and climbing was  easy. The snow field was a bit rotten and post holing but did not feel too unstable. The upper pitch of ice looked good. 

The left side was guarded by parasols and the right was a gushing water hose. Finally some interesting climbing ;)  The ice above these parasols was interesting as it has deep water grooves running through it from previous rain events.   You can't place your tool too close to those fissures as it will simply calve off the ice instead of giving you a good stick.  This made for a few interesting moves.

The snowpack was considerably lower than normal. Usually you have to dig to find the slings. There was enough snow however to butt slide the back gully down to the road so the rope never had to come out of the pack. 

The view is always excellent. 

this place has a Colorado feel to it. 

On the long drive home the sun burned off most of the cloud cover and I could see the mountains. 

Went for a rip at one of my favorite  detours. 

and caught the full moon just as I was arriving home. 

Wow... Nick.  I'm just getting lost in your beautiful pictures.  Embarrassed to say I actually googled "North Pole" from Vermont to see if you were serious.  I guess you were a few miles short of the real north pole, but who's counting?  I love that moon!  And all your reports of late have been inspiring.      Keep 'em coming.  

-------

I'm on a new quest and wondering if there are any techies out there who might have some insight.  I'm looking for an app or gadget that can track health and fitness metrics for me... but so far I'm not getting what I want.  Specifically, I'd like to track my sleep, ie. hours of sleep, REM sleep, restless sleep... and keep tabs on that over a month or so.  Also, daily fitness--not just heartrate for specific workouts.  I bought the Apple Watch for this purpose, and after watching too many videos I'm just overwhelmed.  I don't think it will give me what I want.  

I still haven't figured out how to program in 'a day of hiking climbing'.  The Apple Watch is thinking gym-stuff.  A session of Cross Fit , etc.  I don't know if it would be useful to just track the 15 minutes on a specific route... it's the entire day of hiking, scrambling and climbing that I want to understand.   

Hiking up Ryan's Mountain, when I stop to catch my breath for longer than 30 seconds, the Apple Watch asks if I am ready to stop the hiking session.  If I don't restart immediately, it assumes I'm done hiking and ends the session.  I'm having to pay more attention to my watch than my hiking! 

There is a new product called Whoop.  ( pcmag.com/reviews/whoop-str…)  This sounds more up my alley. Has anyone heard of it?  It gives actionable reports on fitness, recovery, sleep and stress load.  On any given day it can tell you if you are ready to work hard... or whether your sleep, diet, recovery isn't sufficient to go all out.

The reason I am wanting this is because after all this time I still don't know why some days I am so entirely thrashed that I can barely move... and other days, like today, even after a really long hard day of climbing yesterday I feel alert and ready for more.  What happened? How can I repeat that?  (And for me, tracking blood sugars and diet complicates it even more.)  

I don't need to do this forever, but for a few months I want some kind of in-depth app/monitor that will put it all together for me.  Is anyone already doing this?  Thoughts/suggestions?

Fitbit Charge 3 is what I have, charge 4 is on my friend's wrist. He tracks sleep with it, because of medications he takes. It does do rem, awake, light, etc. They will now also track oxygen levels, and "talk" to glucose monitors, so you may be able to see what's going on with all of that intersecting.

Mine tracks steps, so that's pretty straightforward. If you want a gps track, mileage, that sort of thing, strava and other apps can do that. I have used Underarmour's Map My Walk and Map My Ride, in the past. But these days, I'm just aiming to not sit around, as my main goal, so the Fitbit works fairly well.

Fitbit tracks heartrate, so it can let you know minutes in hr zones, so long as you spend more than 15 minutes at it. It lags a bit, sometimes, too. If you want real time hr, a chest strap maybe? I have a pulse oximeter, so I can use that to see what the hr is, if I really want to know. I got it as an early warning for covid going south, actually. 

Fitbit is not much good if you are actually going vertical, meaning climbing, but it does okay with gain for hiking. That gets converted to stairs. The other apps are better for terrain mapping.

Last?

Yeah, there's my calendar with stickers. That helps more than anything else, honestly, that and the Aria scale that does body fat percentage, bmi, and sends it off to the fitbit. That number, in the morning, helps. Sorta. And the too many days of empty spaces on the calendar. Nonjudgemental simple facts. Of course, those "facts" aren't great, lol! Too sedentary. Eat too much and what you shouldn't. Oh well. 

It's sunny today.....

But a cold front roars through tonight. High wind warnings. 45 sustained, 65+ at times. 

Maybe I'll also acquire new lawn furniture, eh? 

I'm doing house stuff today, after an epic cooking session yesterday! So much great food in the freezer now. Actually cooking, makes it much easier to eat good stuff!

Best, Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

Wow... Nick.  I'm just getting lost in your beautiful pictures.  Embarrassed to say I actually googled "North Pole" from Vermont to see if you were serious.  I guess you were a few miles short of the real north pole, but who's counting?  I love that moon!  And all your reports of late have been inspiring.      Keep 'em coming.  

-------

I'm on a new quest and wondering if there are any techies out there who might have some insight.  I'm looking for an app or gadget that can track health and fitness metrics for me... but so far I'm not getting what I want.  Specifically, I'd like to track my sleep, ie. hours of sleep, REM sleep, restless sleep... and keep tabs on that over a month or so.  Also, daily fitness--not just heartrate for specific workouts.  I bought the Apple Watch for this purpose, and after watching too many videos I'm just overwhelmed.  I don't think it will give me what I want.  

I still haven't figured out how to program in 'a day of hiking climbing'.  The Apple Watch is thinking gym-stuff.  A session of Cross Fit , etc.  I don't know if it would be useful to just track the 15 minutes on a specific route... it's the entire day of hiking, scrambling and climbing that I want to understand.   

Hiking up Ryan's Mountain, when I stop to catch my breath for longer than 30 seconds, the Apple Watch asks if I am ready to stop the hiking session.  If I don't restart immediately, it assumes I'm done hiking and ends the session.  I'm having to pay more attention to my watch than my hiking! 

There is a new product called Whoop.  ( pcmag.com/reviews/whoop-str…)  This sounds more up my alley. Has anyone heard of it?  It gives actionable reports on fitness, recovery, sleep and stress load.  On any given day it can tell you if you are ready to work hard... or whether your sleep, diet, recovery isn't sufficient to go all out.

The reason I am wanting this is because after all this time I still don't know why some days I am so entirely thrashed that I can barely move... and other days, like today, even after a really long hard day of climbing yesterday I feel alert and ready for more.  What happened? How can I repeat that?  (And for me, tracking blood sugars and diet complicates it even more.)  

I don't need to do this forever, but for a few months I want some kind of in-depth app/monitor that will put it all together for me.  Is anyone already doing this?  Thoughts/suggestions?

Technology does little to increase fitness, perhaps with the exception of elite athletes.  It's like my friend who buys the latest/greatest driver each year in hope of improving his golf drive distance.  Waste of time and money.  At the level that most of us are at, there is plenty of information on the web to develop a self-directed conditioning program.  But if you're inclined to spend money, my suggestion is to get a personal trainer.

Thanks, Helen! As usual conversations here help me get ideas and understand options.  I am guessing maybe most over 50 climbers aren’t tracking every detail of their lives—they just climb. (And live life). But I’m having enough disruption in my daily life lately that I feel like I need to do a deep dive for awhile.
I may just try Whoop.

BTW... lovely colored eggs you got going there!  We gotta make some here, too! 

What Bob said.

 NEVER buy a new exercise machine. Pleanty of barely used and long neglected machines on FB marketplace ;)  

Personally, I'm not a fan of gadgets. I have a smart phone, which is all the gadget needed. 

Since I cycle (and hike) a lot, Strava is great and I run it off my phone (since 2013) - though you can also use a gps watch or other device too, but I don't like gadgets. If you stop to rest, talk, or admire the scenery, Strava will auto-pause. You tell it when your done. 

Contrary to some opinions, I have found Strava to be a great tool, even though I am far from an elite athlete. You can see how far, how much elevation and how quickly you did your activity and compare it to prior efforts. It helps motivate me to "improve" (whatever that metric may actually be), or at least to get out there rather than sitting on my rear end.

Lori asked about tracking sleep. Strava doesn't do that, and Tony might object to her using a personal trainer in that capacity. Jusssst sayin. 

Personally....

Hmmmm....

:-)

Old lady Hwrote:

Lori asked about tracking sleep. Strava doesn't do that, and Tony might object to her using a personal trainer in that capacity. Jusssst sayin. 

I never thought about a personal trainer for assistance with "sleep".  I need to give that some thought!!!!

Idaho Bobwrote:

I never thought about a personal trainer for assistance with "sleep".  I need to give that some thought!!!!

My first thought was "You people are over thinking shit" then I self corrected and thought "But if you have an issue, you want a solution".

 I count myself very lucky in that I have pretty much no health issues really, no sleep problems or weight problems. Slightly high blood pressure but that's all really. 

I feel for those with issues. 

One more day and I'm off to my trip for all of April. It may be cut short if I get bored but I'll stay away up until my 59th birthday on the 14th regardless. 

The first phase will be all trad at Mt Arapiles, with some drunken bouldering thrown in for fun. 

Second half will probably be bouldering and sports in the Northern Grampians around Hollow Mountain. 

Maybe Mount Rosea in the middle.  

I know I'll be nervous. 

I know I'll get scared 

I know at times I will not want to be where I am. 

I know I'll get grounded. 

I will get well grounded I shall get connected. I shall know what life is, I shall know. 

 I know I'll have fun times.

 I know I'll get angry, depressed, lonely, despondent, wet, hot, stoned, excited and just so, so so relaxed. 

I know it'll be another chapter to the book of Carl. 

Lori Milaswrote:

There is a new product called Whoop.  ( pcmag.com/reviews/whoop-str…)  This sounds more up my alley. Has anyone heard of it?  It gives actionable reports on fitness, recovery, sleep and stress load.  On any given day it can tell you if you are ready to work hard... or whether your sleep, diet, recovery isn't sufficient to go all out.

The reason I am wanting this is because after all this time I still don't know why some days I am so entirely thrashed that I can barely move... and other days, like today, even after a really long hard day of climbing yesterday I feel alert and ready for more.  What happened? How can I repeat that?  (And for me, tracking blood sugars and diet complicates it even more.)  

I don't need to do this forever, but for a few months I want some kind of in-depth app/monitor that will put it all together for me.  Is anyone already doing this?  Thoughts/suggestions?

I like gadgets and data so I tried Whoop for 6 months last year.

PRO - great sleep tracker / daily recovery score every morning based on sleep/HR/HRV/respiratory rate / monthly report that in theory should allow you to test stuff(ie my recovery was 6% better when I took Mg...)

CON - expensive at $30/month for as long as you want is much more than a one time purchase of other trackers / wouldn't integrate with myfitnesspal, apple health, or cronometer / it will not give you daily step count / the recover score didn't always match with how I was feeling / the "strain" score used to measure workouts didn't seem to work well with climbing

Overall I wouldn't recommend Whoop for climbers.  

I used to have a garmin HR/activity tracker that I preferred until it died.

Do you keep some kind of training journal/log?  

Carl Schneiderwrote:

My first thought was "You people are over thinking shit" then I self corrected and thought "But if you have an issue, you want a solution".

 I count myself very lucky in that I have pretty much no health issues really, no sleep problems or weight problems. Slightly high blood pressure but that's all really. 

I feel for those with issues. 

One more day and I'm off to my trip for all of April. It may be cut short if I get bored but I'll stay away up until my 59th birthday on the 14th regardless. 

The first phase will be all trad at Mt Arapiles, with some drunken bouldering thrown in for fun. 

Second half will probably be bouldering and sports in the Northern Grampians around Hollow Mountain. 

Maybe Mount Rosea in the middle.  

I know I'll be nervous. 

I know I'll get scared 

I know at times I will not want to be where I am. 

I know I'll get grounded. 

I will get well grounded I shall get connected. I shall know what life is, I shall know. 

 I know I'll have fun times.

 I know I'll get angry, depressed, lonely, despondent, wet, hot, stoned, excited and just so, so so relaxed. 

I know it'll be another chapter to the book of Carl. 

That's lovely Carl.  I wonder if we can find some pics of Mt. Arapiles so we can see where you're at.  You go on trips... it's hard to keep them all straight.  Where were you last time?  

I hope you have a wonderful time, a memorable time.  And a great birthday if we don't hear from you before then. (But I hope we do). We will need some reports.

Mike Kwrote:

I like gadgets and data so I tried Whoop for 6 months last year.

PRO - great sleep tracker / daily recovery score every morning based on sleep/HR/HRV/respiratory rate / monthly report that in theory should allow you to test stuff(ie my recovery was 6% better when I took Mg...)

CON - expensive at $30/month for as long as you want is much more than a one time purchase of other trackers / wouldn't integrate with myfitnesspal, apple health, or cronometer / it will not give you daily step count / the recover score didn't always match with how I was feeling / the "strain" score used to measure workouts didn't seem to work well with climbing

Overall I wouldn't recommend Whoop for climbers.  

I used to have a garmin HR/activity tracker that I preferred until it died.

Do you keep some kind of training journal/log?  

Hey Mike... thank you for this rundown--this really helps!  

I'm still in a quandry about what information I need, and how to get it.  As Carl just said " if you have an issue, you want a solution". 

As a diabetic I already track a lot of information.  I am plugged in to a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) which feeds out real time blood sugar all day and night.  I use several other apps to give me actionable reports.  It helps a lot to see numbers.  Those numbers also loop to my insulin pump, which is starting to respond accordingly (newer technology).  I really enjoy one particular 7-day report that lets me see whether what I'm doing/eating is improving things and all that translates to health, for me.   

So, cumbersome as gadgets are... they can also really help.  In this case, the CGM is a total game changer and it also allows me much more freedom on the rock and almost non-diabetic numbers in my daily life.

Last year I bought the Apple Watch series 5... because it would give me all those diabetic numbers on the watch face.  No digging around in my pockets for the other gadgets.  However, I haven't really used it much.  It does SO MUCH... but basically is a glorified iPhone.  I really didn't need to play music from my watch, or have it ringing with incoming calls.  I don't care about 'steps'. 

I got frustrated trying to find any kind of listed workout close to climbing... I guess there is now a 'Redpoint' option.  Even if I counted every step and every vertical step... what does that tell me?  

--------------

Aside from my CGM, I don't need all the fancy bells and whistles.  What I'm looking for right now is a way to track some big variables to come up with some solutions to feeling better and performing more consistently when climbing.  Many days I have no idea why I am so wiped out, exhausted... other days feeling great with energy to spare.   Knowledge is power, imo.  Re. Whoop... that 'strain' score was very interesting to me... if it would work.  The recover score could offer information the following day.  I'm always wondering, after an 8 hour day out climbing and hiking... did I push that too far?  Did I overwork, underwork?  Did I hydrate enough?  And did I get so amped I didn't really sleep?   

The monthly fee is now $25 (discount)... really a small price if it would give me what I need for 6 months. If there is actionable information I can learn from...  can't imagine needing it forever. 

Before I left Sacramento, I talked to my doc (who happened to be a Sport Medicine doc) about training.  He said "If you REALLY want to know how you are training, I'll send you to our Sport Lab at the Kings stadium, and we'll test everything, your VOX, your aerobic and anaerobic measurements, heartrates.... all that."    I did not do that. 

What about the garmin?  I have not checked that out. 

I really appreciate the input here... thanks for taking the time. 

----------------------

Has anyone climbed out at Oyster Bar?  I saw a route called Shock Therapy (5.10c) that looks super fun.  Another 'not this year' route for me, most likely.     but I'd like to hike out there and browse around.  (Photo by Phil Caballero)