Crags 4x4 is actually needed to access?

Hmmm, fun question...

Definitely some crags at Shuteye, Grotto/Gold Wall (depending on road conditions) in Sonora area, lots of stuff in Clark Canyon and many Mammoth Lakes area crags, very useful for some bouldering around Bishop area (although the super-classic places don't generally need it), lots of limestone crags around Vegas are impossible to get to without it...

Another factor is a lot of best camping near many crags require 4WD, also if it very useful for snowy conditions when going over mountain passes on the way to rock climbs.

Another thing to keep in mind is most of the time people say, "I made it up the steep section in 2wd, just need to be a badass and hit it with some speed" that's a dick move to everyone else. Their speed and spinning tires tears up the road and leads to roads being washed out a lot faster. Crawling up in 4low is a lot easier on the road. The Homestead is a good example of this. 

Good thread though, the only other place that comes to mind for me is The Dry Canyon in AZ. 

Also agree that 4x4 gives you more and often improved camping options and those areas accessed only by 4x4 will almost always have available camping, which is becoming more and more of a concern as climbing continues to grow. 

Frank Steinwrote:

I do like my 4wd, mostly because my wife feels better with it. However, I ran into a guy who swore that he got into Homestead with a stock Impreza (not an Outback), and I know for a fact that a Toyota Yaris and a Honda Fit made it into the Enchanted Tower. 

A bunch of times I have pulled over and parked and decided to hike because my poor little Prius could not possibly take any more punishment a Forest Service road was handing out, only to discover a Honda Fit parked at the trailhead.

I've always done fine with small pickups in snow, but with the first snow, the first drive was to get sand for the back. But, I've never lived where there isn't snow. If I can't get around in it, it's because its the sort of rare ice that bussess slide backwards on. Even then? I know which streets to pick.

I have a 2016 Honda CR-V now, and got it for the clearance. The "utility" part of SUV has been bred out of many vehicles in recent years, sadly.

Do you need 4wd? Not to get to climbing areas, honestly.

But see.... there's everything else.

Idaho still has many many miles of unpaved roads, that's true of much of the west, and those roads go to, well, they go to the places the peeps with useless SUVs never go. My CRV is good enough almost everywhere....but not everywhere. I've told friends no, who wanted to borrow it. The backside of the LRR. 

The Toyota Tacoma in the family? Has beefed up suspension, big tires, is raised up some, everything aimed for "offroad". All it takes is a little, isolated, rain shower, many places, or the road simply thawing a bit in the sun.

The Tacoma also has a shovel and overnight packs on board behind the seats, and an itinerary left with someone (usually me) for all those trips to really wonderful stuff that few even know about, let alone see.

Get 4wd. Or not. But learn to drive, please?

Best, Helen

Dave K wrote:

Most every truck on the road, and most every truck used for truck stuff by people who actually need a truck.

That’s only relevant to people that live in areas like... San Diego.  For everyone else that lives in the mountains, or areas of the state or country that aren’t always so fair weather, that’s not a relevant statement at all. 4WD or AWD is a must for a large portion of the state and country. A Pos Prius or Honda Fit just ain’t gonna cut it in my neck of the woods, ever! 

J W Hwrote:

A bunch of times I have pulled over and parked and decided to hike because my poor little Prius could not possibly take any more punishment a Forest Service road was handing out, only to discover a Honda Fit parked at the trailhead.

The Fit is freekin' fantastic off road.  Usually what gets 2WD cars isn't ground clearance and traction so much as breakover/approach/departure angles.  Really small FWD cars tend to be narrow and have short wheelbases that make those angles better.

I love my toyota land cruiser for many reasons, but the only time I regularly need it's off road capabilities are in the RRG and only to avoid an extra 15 minutes of hiking.

Although I mostly agree with Salamanizer, a couple of years ago I watched an old woman drive her little Honda several miles on a dirt road that had deep snow huge potholes & several stuck & or crashed trucks on it. I saw her coming a mile or so behind me and slowed down figuring I'd have to go back and get however was dumb enough to be out here in a car. I was happily stunned when she went by me & I realized she was older than the hills. I pulled out and followed her several miles till we made it to the road. She went slow and steady all the way. 

pat awrote:

Usually what gets 2WD cars isn't ground clearance and traction so much as breakover/approach/departure angles.  

Preach it. So many folks with their 8" of clearance getting turned back because of their 180" wheelbase.

There is a reason I have one 2wd truck & three 4X4s. The 2wd drive does everything I could possibly need done on the street or on average dirt roads. The 4x4s each have a place where I need a particular wheelbase, power, weight, or size. 

most 2wd vehicles are actually one wheel drive too. a 2wd truck with a true limited slip diff can handle significantly worse conditions than most "2wd" street only open diff trucks.  

I've seen a lot of open diff high clearance trucks roll down the PMRP hill in the red thinking they've got a truck so its cool only to watch a fountain of gravel spray from one side as they floor it back out. 

Kevin Kwrote:

Another thing to keep in mind is most of the time people say, "I made it up the steep section in 2wd, just need to be a badass and hit it with some speed" that's a dick move to everyone else. Their speed and spinning tires tears up the road and leads to roads being washed out a lot faster. Crawling up in 4low is a lot easier on the road. The Homestead is a good example of this. 

This is actually quite true. Many times I took my old 2WD Tacoma to a certain area approached by a fairly steep and rocky, two-mile FS road. But, in loose and rutted conditions I always had to conserve momentum or I’d start to spin. Now, in a true 4WD I easily crawl up it without issues no matter the conditions.

For those singing the off-road praises for the Honda Fit, I did see one at the Enchanted Tower, but we have had one for eleven years now, and my wife ripped the spoiler off twice, once on a speed bump, and once on a steep driveway. The clearance on those things is abysmal. 

Obligatory “4WD is Aid” comment.

Can’t speak to out west, but in New England it seems that most unmaintained roads are doable in the average AWD SUV. I’ve often been glad I didn’t have a larger SUV or truck just because of width alone. That being said, you lose out on ground Clearance significantly. 

Frank Steinwrote:

For those singing the off-road praises for the Honda Fit, I did see one at the Enchanted Tower, but we have had one for eleven years now, and my wife ripped the spoiler off twice, once on a speed bump, and once on a steep driveway. The clearance on those things is abysmal. 

Second that. My wife and I own a Fit and the ONLY reason we can get it to some out of the way places is the narrow wheelbase. The front bumper plastic is ripping off from curbs around town. The FIT would be great with like 1 more inch of clearance.

This Fit 

M Mwrote:

This Fit 

I am a most satisfied owner of a 2007 Fit Sport. Yes, the nose drags, but I've managed to never rip it off. Thing is awesome in the snow and I've taken it lots of places. Shows no sign of slowing down. I carry a shovel and a come along, and don't think twice about taking it deep.

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Maybe it’s already been mentioned but many AWD cars do great in the snow but suck off highway unless the road is flat.   Many of these AWD cars transmissions will start to overheat and burn up if doing any steep hill climbing. I nearly burned out the transmission on an AWD Honda Pilot on a hill my truck and Jeep could drive all day long.  If it’s not geared low you could be looking at some costly repairs from burning out the transmission.   The Honda Pilot was a champ in the snow but a complete dog in the dirt. 

This is especially true if your AWD car is a CVT (like all the new subis, CRVs etc). There are a bunch of YouTube videos of newer foresters and outbacks trying to climb mild forest service roads, only to have the engine cut power when it senses the CVT heating up. 

Keechelus ridge 

curt86irocwrote:

This is especially true if your AWD car is a CVT (like all the new subis, CRVs etc). There are a bunch of YouTube videos of newer foresters and outbacks trying to climb mild forest service roads, only to have the engine cut power when it senses the CVT heating up. 

Subarus are all ticking time bombs

LL2wrote:

I am a most satisfied owner of a 2007 Fit Sport. Yes, the nose drags, but I've managed to never rip it off. Thing is awesome in the snow and I've taken it lots of places. Shows no sign of slowing down. I carry a shovel and a come along, and don't think twice about taking it deep.

You in Santa Fe? You wouldn’t happen to be the Fit at the Enchanted Tower I saw?  Don’t see many off-roading in Fits, and if yours was the one, chapeau to your diving skill!