New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

Carl Schneider wrote:

 I honestly feel that very very very generally, in my experience, for most outdoor routes I've climbed, 23 is where it starts to sort the men from the boys. 

I'm glad you left all us girls, gals, ladies, woman, and old biddies out of this analysis.  I for one don't like being sorted! (just teasing you...)

there are a bunch of ladies out there that climb circles around most of us men... just saying... 

Jan Mc wrote:

Lori, also realize that slab in particular is more often mental than physical and more so the harder it gets.  When you get to the really hard routes it often becomes a matter of 'make believe' and how well you can convince yourself that by some magical thought your foot will stay on that almost non-existant hold that you put it on.  If you can't convince your brain, your feet won't believe either and will fall off every time.  This is where 'practice makes perfect' really comes into play.  Either climb slab a LOT or don't climb slab well.

Let me add to this business of "make believe," something my old friend Jan here is an expert at, and not just in reference to climbing   .

Some times you find yourself in a position where, "if only there were a foothold (or handhold) right there..." You see little rugosities here and there that might hold a toe, but they are all in the wrong spots, nothing to balance on. So you must commit to an act of faith. Place your foot where you want the hold to be; where, if there were a hold there you could balance up on it. Apply pressure gently to create friction and, using your body as if it was one big hand, grip the stone and move up.

Of course you must have a perfect plan. Your other foot, as you step up, must have a goal, and you must set it there in one fluid movement with precision. Hopefully it's not another imaginary hold, that's when the going gets weird (and the weird get going).

There's a gentleman who lives out your way named John Stannard. He can often be found at various community clean up efforts, including trail maintenance days up in the park. When I was getting started climbing at The Gunks, Mr. Stannard was among the most distinguished of the masters. I remember him saying "Once placed, never move a foot." Easy for him to say, he never missed that perfect spot... 

I never take a Stannard route lightly... 

Mountain lion tracks this morning, northern Arizona.

Little Big Man, V3

Kristian Solem wrote:

There's a gentleman who lives out your way named John Stannard. He can often be found at various community clean up efforts, including trail maintenance days up in the park. When I was getting started climbing at The Gunks, Mr. Stannard was among the most distinguished of the masters. I remember him saying "Once placed, never move a foot." Easy for him to say, he never missed that perfect spot... 

Stannard wasn't just referring to precision.  Pre-sticky rubber, the smallest foot motions would make your foot pop off.  The modern practice of actually pivoting on weighted holds was not a possibility in the hard-rubber days.

rgold wrote:

Stannard wasn't just referring to precision.  Pre-sticky rubber, the smallest foot motions would make your foot pop off.  The modern practice of actually pivoting on weighted holds was not a possibility in the hard-rubber days.

My first shoes were hand me down Kronhoffers, from the guy who got me started in all this madness. I had Pivetta's, used them more up in the Adirondacks. You could hike in them, but they had a good rand for easy rock. I sort of recall a few other shoes in the mix, then I got EB's, which were the first real rock climbing purposed shoes I used. Then it was off to CA, and out came those things Bachar was selling. As anyone who came up through that evolution of shoes knows, Fire's were revolutionary.

Like you say, the whole concept of footwork changed.

Lori Milas wrote:

What's everyone listening to?  Care to share your favorite (or current) playlist?

Fleetwood Mac with Ms. Nicks singing Gypsy!

we didn't get Fires  right away in VT.  Climb high only stocked Calmas.. I coveted a pair of Fires. When I finally got a pair they were not quite as good as the Calmas which were a Fire knock off? 

Kristian Solem wrote:

My first shoes were hand me down Kronhoffers, from the guy who got me started in all this madness. I had Pivetta's, used them more up in the Adirondacks. You could hike in them, but they had a good rand for easy rock. I sort of recall a few other shoes in the mix, then I got EB's, which were the first real rock climbing purposed shoes I used. Then it was off to CA, and out came those things Bachar was selling. As anyone who came up through that evolution of shoes knows, Fire's were revolutionary.

Like you say, the whole concept of footwork changed.

Oh gosh. How embarrassing.  I'm guessing "EBGBs" was named after EBs?  

I'm mulling over this morning the very complicated journey of becoming a climber.  When I announced to Bob Gaines that I wanted to become proficient at cracks he offered that it would take years to do so... kind of a change of direction for me if I was serious.  Jan just said, I can see this is true, that to become a good slab climber, you have to climb slab A LOT.  

How to allocate these months or years we have to climb is the real challenge.  In the long run, it does come down to 'everything'.  We are still climbing everything. I'm purposely saying no to a lot of diversions and trying to stay within what is fun, magical and possible.  

And yet yesterday, a short stretch of 5.9 crack in Indian Cove... went pretty well.  

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There is a short slab route over on Echo Cove South Face that I want to check out today, called C.S. Special (5.10b/c).  If I am looking for other 10b's to experience, this could be one of them???  (What do you know, another Houser route.   )  

I do have that feeling, with these particular routes, that Kristian and Jan's suggestions are spot on.  I was thinking about this last night.  The route I was on yesterday didn't have ANY foot or hand holds, and not a single spot to edge on.  The tiny divets I WANTED to use for a toe were so far away... large side-steps or cross overs which further unbalance the situation.  So what if you just choose to stay on course, smearing on the raw rock in front of you.  Don't know... will try it next outing.  I have to stop thinking about how in the hell you guys did grades harder than this.  

EDIT: I had forgotten that I left my shoe-cam running when Bob Gaines went up the same route I had been trying.  I will ask if I can share that footage... it's really a Master Class in slab climbing. His feet are quiet, footwork cat-like, relaxed and strong.  Very inspirational!  

SO much to learn about this crazy sport!

PS. Who was Bob Malloy?

PTR wrote:

I've seen people similarly baffled by the start of Easy Overhang [5.2].

Back when I set routes in the gym, I used to joke that the first move and the last move don’t count. “hey, you want to transition to outdoors?! This can only help you.”   

Kinda bummed about this: I think the CS Special route goes permanently off my list.

Funny I was going to ask today whether Houser routes were only slab. Was there ever upper body muscular moves? So the CS Special route and the adjacent route put up by Bob are beautiful friction slab... until you walk up to it and ask yourself how one gets on to the wall.  I stared at this thing from every angle until I realized they actually intend a Boulder move. Do we have no Plan B?

The roof is 7 feet from the ground. I am 5’8”.  The first handhold is a sloper. The first decent foot/hand is another foot higher.  It would take some real power just to get onto the face and then some to get settled onto the route.  I concluded its impossible.  

On the up side I took another look at RFYL up close, and glad I did. If I have the route correct I can do it. Big sigh of relief. It can stay on the list.

Second COVID shot today.  Who else?

Lori Milas wrote:

Second COVID shot today.  Who else?

This past Monday. Now scheduling lots of catch-up stuff for after the 15th. Both excited and impatient.

Lori Milas wrote:

What's everyone listening to?  Care to share your favorite (or current) playlist?

That's a great song. I'd never seen the video before, though. Art, the lead singer of Everclear, grew up in a really rough and tumble housing project about 5 geographic miles but, also, a million economic miles away from Santa Monica and the beach. The whole line about living beside the ocean and leaving it all behind makes perfect sense in that context. The beach shots in that video aren't SM but, rather, Leo Carillo State Beach up in Malibu. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

That's a great song. I'd never seen the video before, though. Art, the lead singer of Everclear, grew up in a really rough and tumble housing project about 5 geographic miles but, also, a million economic miles away from Santa Monica and the beach. The whole line about living beside the ocean and leaving it all behind makes perfect sense in that context. The beach shots in that video aren't SM but, rather, Leo Carillo State Beach up in Malibu. 

I liked the vibe and it was fun sitting at the top of a crag with Chris and just listening.  Over the years this song has had special  meaning for me.

Where’s your playlist??? Give it up! 

wendy weiss wrote:

This past Monday. Now scheduling lots of catch-up stuff for after the 15th. Both excited and impatient.

Had my second on Wednesday.  Yea!!!!!!!

Lori, Ever been out to Lenticular Dome? There's a great climb there called Mental Physics. Two pitches. The first goes up a fun, user friendly 5.7 crack. If there's a crack in all of JT that's calling your name, this is it. You'll get to climb a little steeper than you're probably used to, but it's fun and straightforward. Low stress. The second takes a nice 5.7 slab to the top.

A nice hike out past the Astrodomes and back rounds out a perfect day...

Kristian Solem wrote:

Lori, Ever been out to Lenticular Dome? There's a great climb there called Mental Physics. Two pitches. The first goes up a fun, user friendly 5.7 crack. If there's a crack in all of JT that's calling your name, this is it. You'll get to climb a little steeper than you're probably used to, but it's fun and straightforward. Low stress. The second takes a nice 5.7 slab to the top.

A nice hike out past the Astrodomes and back rounds out a perfect day...

2 pitches? It's only 1 long pitch.

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote:

2 pitches? It's only 1 long pitch.

Most books call it two, and iirc there is a bolted anchor in the middle. That said, it is better done as one pitch. 

I think that may be one of only two leads I've ever backed off due to being just too chicken. It was twenty years ago. I was a new leader.  I was starting up the second pitch, with my belayer hanging out on the bolts. I discovered that the 5.7 crux of the route is fifteen feet above the belay, just before you get to the first bolt. I did not like the idea of a thirty foot tumbling factor two fall on my belayer. 

I later realized that just because there was a belay in the middle didn't mean I had to use it, and went back and sent it as a single pitch. Very nice route if I recall. Each pitch quite different from the other. 

GO