Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15
Carl Schneiderwrote: Hey Carl. Over the last few years we've talked about diet/nutrition on and off. I think all any of us can hope to do is share what works for us, and if it's a fit for someone else, great. Because the thing is, we are all after the same goal (at least in this respect) which is to climb better, and for as long as possible. A moment of digression here... there is so much swag to climbing, and such a culture around being indominable, that if you can't throw back some beer, chips and aspirin at the end of the day and get out and do it again tomorrow you're too fragile to be a climber. So, speaking strictly first person here: I do have to overthink diet. For decades before I started climbing (at 64) I was a careful eater, but not obsessive about nutrition. I did slowly move to more organic foods, cleaned out the plastic in my home, switched to olive oil and ghee...etc. But I was much more relaxed... ate mostly chicken and turkey, a bit of fish, lots of vegetables, fruits, some grains. But when I started spending days out on the rock, and especially when I was gym climbing, I had whole days where I was unaccountably wiped out, on the couch, spacey, even depressed. I was finding it took a lot of determination to make it to the gym, ready to climb hard. And as time went on, I felt more injury prone, my recovery was taking longer. It was really coming down to leaving climbing behind, or make some serious dietary changes. I started keeping a loose journal and found that if I loaded up on protein foods at dinner, the next day I woke up with energy and could climb better. I had to break through my own moral dislike of red meat and started eating steak, roasts, hamburger and found an instant improvement in energy. One of my favorite ah-hah moments was after climbing a double session at the gym (4 hours with friends) and drove over to Lucilles for a plate of beef ribs, baked beans and collard greens... I finished off the whole rack of ribs, slept like a baby and woke up with energy to spare. So much for my desire to return to vegetarianism. So I was learning that it's not about being fastidious about diet... it's about fueling for the extreme demands I am now placing on my body. When Tony raises his eyebrows (and he doesn't much these days) I ask him what would happen if he put diesel fuel in his Hyundai. Without some kind of log or scorecard I tend to fall back into old ways of eating. On days when I was unaccountably really wiped out, really overtired if I thought back inevitably it turned out I had worked out hard that day and only nibbled on a sandwich at lunch, or not bothered with a good breakfast. I am really learning to measure this one thing now... protein. A cheap scale in the kitchen helps. All the other dietary aspects, carb, fats etc flow pretty easily from there. It also helps to have lab work that provide actual numbers and data to work with. I've been lucky to have a doctor who obliged and continues to send me off to the lab every now and then. My iron levels have been perpetually low, much moreso after protracted climbing... and I am finally resigned to taking iron as long as I am this active. Vitamin E! A few other metrics on my lab testing fall way outside any normal range...it helps to know this, and fix it. Diabetes complicates this, but I now think that being THIS active, and THIS old are the true complicating factors. Helen... in case you were serious about the numbers, here's the deal: Take your weight and divide it by 2.2. That's your weight in kilograms. Multiply your weight in kilograms by 1.6. That's the number of grams of protein (big approximation) that you need daily. It could be as high as 2.2 gm of protein daily. So, 140 pound woman would require 101 gm protein daily (140 / 2.2 x 1.6) There is really a large range, but that's the middle point. And protein grams looks like this: 3 egg omelet = 18 gm protein whey protein shake = 16 gm (some go as high as 50) 8 oz ribeye steak = 37 gm You will find that to meet that protein target you will be eating a lot of meat/eggs/nuts etc...and having to eliminate most empty calorie foods so you stay within a caloric range.
|
Guy Keeseewrote: Guy... you always show up to save the day with a happy word. Thank you! (and thank you, Wendy, Kristian, Jan) I've been mulling over my reaction to the 10b that was so difficult. It was the end of a good day of climbing, windy, cold... and from the ground my final route looked like a walk in the park. A gently undulating easy slab. As usual, when I actually got on that route, it was not 'easy'. There was not a single edge. Not a single hold of any kind. There were 'divets', and not many of those. It was all toe-in, sustained smearing. The truth is, I've been having so much fun 'training' for the big one: Run For Your Life. Bob has been the best coach, and such a good sport, to help me understand the route and be ready to give it a go. The BEST thing he has said to me is to chill a bit on this, to be willing to go check it out, play on it, and not get too attached to sending it first try. So, when Bob said "Lori, this (10b) is about how the last stretch of Run For Your Life goes. So when you can do this easily, you can handle RFYL." I realized, oh shit, I may not waltz up RFYL first go. I may not make it at all! I cannot imagine being 70 feet up on this magnificent rock, and having to suddenly deal with THIS... awful slab. I have my red "Dave's Not Here" tshirt all ready to go, but I may not make it through that last stretch of that route. So, I've gotten over my pout, and I can accept this. But this week, and on forward, hopefully my 'pyramid' of routes will mix in more 10a's and some good10b's. Maybe the lightbulb will just go on! ------------------------- With all the discussion on grading ... wow... I haven't felt qualified to add my two cents. But what I'm coming to feel is that there is a deep wisdom and understanding about these routes (at least here in Josh) and the climbing community has a good sense of what it takes to send them. The grading is not capricious. I like that they don't bend much around here--there's an intuitive consensus. It's my job to catch up, not their job to soothe my ego with easier grading. The bar is set VERY high. Something else I'm pondering about climbing here--with the exception of bouldering problems, it feels like the increased grades require more technique over strength. I was recently on an 11+. More chin ups wouldn't have helped on this. It really was a whole-body technique thing and I'm not nearly there. And it goes back to mad respect for those here who have or do climb 11+ anything. Just can't imagine it! EDIT: Something I DO feel qualified to comment upon. How can polished routes NOT be harder? It is my understanding that Loose Lady originally had more flakes and edges... which would make it easier, correct? More recently, when I climbed Chalk Up Another One... that route is SLICK. I was imagining back in the day it probably had some edges and crimps? I would think that as time goes on and routes loose their features the grade would go UP. |
|
I try not to get hung up on grades. So many variables. When was the route put up? Prior to 1970-80, grading was a little stiffer (IMHO). Who was the First Ascensionist? If at Red Rock I add a "grade" if it's a Joe Herbst route, and at City of Rocks if it's a Lowe route from the 60's expect that the route could be really stiff based on todays standards. How has the route changed over time? Super polished for the first couple of moves like in the Valley? Consider Fender Bender in Sandstone Quarry, Red Rock. In Joanne Urioste's 1984 little red book (the first guide for RR), it is rated 5.2. Now rated 5.6. Could holds have broken? Is it a trad route where there are options? Peaches, in Red Rock, is rated 5.5, 5.8 or 5.9 depending on the line you take. Or is it sport route where you follow a well established line? Are you in Wales, climbing wet rock in the rain? Better be conservative in your selection, even after you think you understand the complicated rating system. Are you alpine climbing in the Winds on a long multi-pitch classic put up 50+ years ago? And finally (?) there is location, type of rock and type of climb. I'm pretty good on granite slab, but on sandstone, HA! And when you've got all that figured out go to the quartzite at Lake Louise! My suggestion is just go out and have fun! Cheers! |
Josh Squirewrote: Hi Josh! <waves> Leave your walker on the left side of the door and grab a margarita. Nice to see you here, even if you are a little early. :) GO |
GabeOwrote: Yo Gabe! We didn't get to the Nose for your 50th, but maybe for mine? :) Although probably not til 2022 :( |
 Very windy yesterday in Sedona. 50 mph gusts. When I was younger I thought that was cool. It was ridiculous. Had to look down and squint the whole walk out. The approach is the crux for me anymore. |
Todd Berlier wrote: Fantastic! Love the little celebration after the top out. Nice job! |
Todd Berlier wrote: V9! Proud send for over fifty! |
Todd Berlier wrote: Lol! Love the little dance at the end! Nifty boulder, too! Not spam, and besides, spam is protein, right??? Grading, one other thing, on paying attention to when stuff was put up, and by whom? Spiciness! Everything from spicy bits to flat out ground fall potential, as far up as 2/3 of the route. Lots of earlier routes (around here, at least) assume you are competent at a higher grade, on easy stuff. And, that is how they are bolted. I've been on a number of climbs at City of Rocks that were....quite interesting, lol! On routes getting harder or easier? They've only gotten harder, for all of them I know about. Close to home, it's blocks finally getting loose enough to come out. It's been climbed enough all the breakable bits have broken. The two recently, made those routes harder. Even when an entire face fell off a few years ago, the new line underneath was an 11 finger crack! The two easier lines were a jumble of boulders down the talus slope. Best, Helen  Gall Bladder, at City. It's pretty easy to see where the friction is rubbed off either side of the crack! Still more friction than on my basalt.  And, you can see how ground down the start of Rollercoaster is (that ledge is your first objective). I lead it, on my first trip. It's definitely a harder start, for me, now! |
Todd Berlier wrote: Bien hecho, viejo! |
Bob Gaineswrote: V9 is a proud send for any age |
Bob Gaineswrote: Ah, that makes sense. It's like 5.1 over there. But far out of the way. |
|
Lori said “”The truth is, I've been having so much fun 'training' for the big one: Run For Your Life. Bob has been the best coach, and such a good sport, to help me understand the route and be ready to give it a go. The BEST thing he has said to me is to chill a bit on this, to be willing to go check it out, play on it, and not get too attached to sending it first try.”” Got to disagree with Bob’s advice on this. The on-site flash is what you should be looking for in your climbing. Never start up a climb thinking “I’m going to fall off” Rather convince yourself that “I got this” ...... stay positive. Also stay “real” pick out roots you should be able to do (similar grades, styles etc) then try your hardest, don’t give up, and make gravity rip the holds out of your hands. (I think Royal said that) And welcome to Todd, Josh. Got any good stories? |
Lori Milaswrote: Flakes and edges don't make it easier if they're constantly popping off under you. They call that a route "cleaning up" with traffic. "Polished" really means when it gets slippery from a lot of traffic plus body oil from hands and rubber from shoes. More of a problem at J-tree than at Tahquitz, where the granite is frankly superb and doesn't do that so much. I like J-tree a lot but the rock is no comparison with Tahquitz or good Sierra granite, too. |
Guy Keeseewrote: You are disagreeing with Bob? I never disagree with Bob. I think this might be a Zen thing: ie. Go at it with your whole heart but detach from the outcome. Or. It might be a Yoda thing.  I’m so confused. Can someone tell me if Carl is right? “I think 10d on toprope should be accessible for most people.” |
Lori Milaswrote: He's never been to Joshua Tree. |
|
The operative phrase is, "accessible on top rope". Accessible is not the same as a send, nor does it mean pretty, or even getting off the ground. It merely means go for it. :-) |
|
probobly not. 10d is usually sandbagged . 11a on the other hand is totally doable. |
Nick Goldsmithwrote: Truth! |
Nick Goldsmithwrote: We call it "the dreaded 10d". |
