New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

Expensive but I have had transitions since I was a teenager.. 

Well, I climbed today in Indian Cove and I think I found my limit. My lifetime limit. I can climb a 10a with some ease, cannot climb a 10b, Noriega Does Panama.  Like, that’s it for me.   10a is IT. 

I could only describe this kind of climbing as “intense” there were no footholds and absolutely no handholds—unless you would call some minuscule crystal off to the side a handhold. I don’t care if it’s ‘only on a toprope’ it’s terrifying. Or at least... it is intensely focused climbing.  

I asked Bob halfway up “You ENJOY this?” And yes he does. WHY? Why do we like this torture?  Real question...

If I learned something today it’s that you have to choose a move and go. Just go!  (Not home.   You have to finish the route before you can come down and eat chocolate ). And I learned that I crimp for shit... but it would help if there was something besides sheer wall to crimp!  I was patting the wall everywhere for anything to grab. 

How can there be such a difference between a 10a route and a 10b???  Are the higher grades even climbable under mortal power? For a split second I actually wished I could twitch my nose like Samantha and just levitate.

Tony dropped by with his lawn chair to watch me climb on King Otto’s and after an hour or two said “I’ve seen enough!” and left. Was it because watching climbing is like watching paint dry? Or because he was terrified I might fall? I’m sure I’ll find out tonight.  He thinks this is easy-peasy.

And yet... on our way out Bob pointed out some great awe-inspiring routes on the Feudal Wall... and of course right away I’m yammering “I can climb that! I wanna try that one!  (5.12).  Like The Godfather “Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in”   

This was a little sidestep crossover to catch a foot to the left. 

led this on saturday. red dots are the belays we did. 

my friend tim following p2 

@ belay on top of P2

topping out. 

Strong gusty winds and blowing snow. very cool day.  P1 was extra sporty.... 

phylp phylpwrote:

Mike K, I don't agree with Carl about the contacts.   I did wear contacts for a while because I thought they would be great for exercise, but in the places I climb dust in the wind was always an issue.  Getting a chunk of dirt in your lens six pitches up with 4 to go is a real drag.  So I ended up wearing non-Rx sunglasses on top of the contacts to protect from dust and also the sun damage to the eyes.   If you're going to be wearing sunglasses anyway, you might as well get Rx sunglasses.  I used to get progressive sunglasses but my close vision is so good that I found them more distracting than helpful. Now my Rx sunglasses have just the distance Rx and that works for me.  Once thing I will mention is to be careful about the fit of the glasses.  Make sure you can shake your head around and that they don't shift.  Also, if you wear a helmet, how the helmet fits can make it sit funny on your glasses, and that can be annoying,  so take your helmet with you when you pick out the frames!

Interesting.  I wonder if this may be highly person specific; perhaps eye shape + natural tearing + contact style/brand ?  I wore contacts from 16 to about 60 (by then my vision had switched the other way so it became closer to 20/20 again and I began to not be able see close up with them in).  I wore them caving for up to 36 hours at a time, and there is no dirtier environment than a dirty, muddy cave.  Never had a single problem in a cave.  There were a few times in 45 years or so an eye would dry out and the lens would fold up and become unusable.  In those cases, I just pulled it out and went with 1 lens, but my vision was never incredibly bad, so it worked for me. 

I have always worn sunglasses outside though, even on cloudy days (blue eyes and really susceptible to UV damage from sun exposure).  I always have them on a strap though because I don't want to lose them kayaking or climbing.  

Took many tries of various things to get a system though, so hopefully all the suggestions from many folks will help others save time on experimentation.

T

Hey ya'all.  Kind of checked out for the winter.  Trying to play catch up, wow #15.  

John, sorry to hear about Jeans wrist, tell her not to push too fast, I am still dealing with injuries that are years old that I didn't allow to heal before jumping back into the fray.  

Lori, I officially declare that you are no longer a noob.

Rgold, quit falling down, it hurts. 

I have been working on my 65,000 mile service.  New to medicare they are paying for a bunch of stuff.  Mostly pretty good for a 65 year old.  PT on shoulders has helped a lot.  I was a little discouraged in the middle of it as I could not climb anything, but slowly worked back up to 5.8 in the gym.  Barb is climbing nothing but 5.10's, I hate her guts. 

Ski season was a little rocky, literally, lots of rocks on the slopes for the first 40 days.  Not much open, thankfully it snowed a bunch so better now.  But 3 months of cold weather we are ready to start our summer travels.  First stop next week is Moab.  Budman, what one armed routes? Maybe I could do one of them.... 

It's good to see America get out and embrace nature. It's bad for us.  RV campgrounds mostly booked up Fri/Sat nights.  Deadhorse and Arches booked for months already.  We will attempt some boondocking (dry camping in an RV).  Hopefully we can find something.  

We always try to find something a little different than what we have done in the past.  This trip we are looking at canyoneering the Goblins Lair  (Chamber of the Basilisk) near Moab.  Looks like a single rope rap and a little hike, should be fun.  

A question for the super experienced folks here; The beta indicates that there are deep rope grooves that tend to hang a rope.  They suggest something to protect the rope from falling into the grooves. Yet it is a rap, so no going back up. Other than being careful with the rope lay is there anything someone can suggest to assist rope pull that is retrievable?  I guess worst case would be hike back around and pull the rope from the top.  

For those that follow us we are leaving Park City, UT 3/9, couple of days in Moab, then Santa Fe, NM for more skiing and playing with the grandkids.  Road tripping Albuquerque, Vegas, Reno, Bend (only one day of climbing with friends at Smith Rock), then April we will be campground hosting at Millersylvania State Park near Olympia, WA and the May/Jun/July at Deception Pass State Park near Mt. Vernon, WA.  While Mt. Erie is not an epic destination climbing area it provides enough outdoor climbing that we will be happy those months. 

Lori, side note; on the RV forums there has been some discussion about rope led lighting around and underneath the RV's to prevent rodents from invading.  Effectiveness is still under consideration, some rave about it, others are a little more skeptical, but it's cheap enough to try if you decide to.  Let me know if it helps. 

Tim Schafstallwrote:

Interesting.  I wonder if this may be highly person specific; perhaps eye shape + natural tearing + contact style/brand ?  I wore contacts from 16 to about 60 (by then my vision had switched the other way so it became closer to 20/20 again and I began to not be able see close up with them in).  I wore them caving for up to 36 hours at a time, and there is no dirtier environment than a dirty, muddy cave.  Never had a single problem in a cave.  There were a few times in 45 years or so an eye would dry out and the lens would fold up and become unusable.  In those cases, I just pulled it out and went with 1 lens, but my vision was never incredibly bad, so it worked for me. 

I have always worn sunglasses outside though, even on cloudy days (blue eyes and really susceptible to UV damage from sun exposure).  I always have them on a strap though because I don't want to lose them kayaking or climbing.  

Took many tries of various things to get a system though, so hopefully all the suggestions from many folks will help others save time on experimentation.

T

I think it probably is person specific. Of course grit and drying wind CAN be an issue, but sunglasses over top of them might assist with that or google type glasses. I wear 'Ugly Fish' (brand) wrap around sunglasses on my motorbike, they have a removable gasket, and also arms that can be swapped with a strap.

Years a go when I was in the army we had deployed a Rapier Surface to Air Missile System (SAM). I was trying to stay warm at night by hanging out near the VW engine generator that ran the thing. Unfortunately I got some grit in my eyes and in trying to get it out dislodged a contact lens. I'd wear them 'put bush' on exercises, surfing, doing everything really.  Anyway, I lost the lens. Next night, again trying to stay warm while on watch, I thought, I have nothing to do, may as well try and find that lens. I found it all shrivelled up.  Popped it into its cleaning fluid for a day and it was right as rain.

On a climbing note, I WAS feeling ridiculously strong but tonight fell of a grade 19 on the overhung wall at the last hold twice, but did it clean last week.  I HATE that, being able to do a route and then NOT being able to do it.   Also did about three 18s, a 16, tried a 23 (got up it with about 5 sits). Was a bit depressed but them realised I've climbed 10 days in the last 14 AND I'm trying to lose weight to get to 65 even.  

https://uglyfisheyewear.com/default/cruize-rsp909-polarised-matt-black-frame-smoke-lens.html

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I'd highly recommend contact lenses. I've been wearing them since I was 19. I'm extremely short sighted; I can't even rad the biggest letter on the eye chart without glasses or lenses. Now I'm old I'm also long sighted, so I have bi-focal contact lenses. Sounds weird but there are concentric circles, alternating between correction for shortsightedness and longsightedness. Your brain works out which to use. Their not perfect (I can't read small writing on labels or the date on my watch) but their certainly good enough for climbing, I can easily read the numbers on my cams. I have no problems with the wind and can wear sunglasses of course (though never do when i climb).  

Thanks, I hadn't really considered that as I didn't do well with contacts 30 years ago.  I imagine they are better/easier to use these days.

Randywrote:

The observations made by Lori are something many of us have seen when traveling to different parts of the country (including Yucca Valley/Joshua Tree/29 Palms). There is some deep poverty in the High Desert, despite the recent influx of Artist/Musician/Outdoor types. 

The inner city sees similar problems with diet and health, though in that case, it is often compounded by the lack of fresh food markets (the "food desert" phenomenon).  

Is it any wonder that these poorer communities has been disproportionately affected by Covid?

The fast food and junk food industries are a powerful lobby and well connected politically. Free choice proponents fight any efforts to advocate, educate or regulate.

Funny I didn't know that there was poverty here in the High Desert until I was well moved in.  Now I see it everywhere.  I was a little blinded looking for my tribe.  

Within this conversation this is the biggest clue: "The fast food and junk food industries are a powerful lobby and well connected politically. Free choice proponents fight any efforts to advocate, educate or regulate."

My real sadness, when I walk into Walmart, or really any regular grocery store, is the predominance of processed fast food... the racks of potato chips, cookies, cakes, pies, that greet the shopper when they walk in, racks of colorful stuff that require no preparation and taste good.  And I guess you'd have to be a scholar to know or care what's in those foods, how they are made, or what the harm is from, for instance, rancid oils.  So in the cart they go, to the brim.  

I had a friend who had to live on a VA allotment of $200 month for food.  He had become quite obese and asked me if I could put together any kind of shopping list and menu from Walmart. I majored in Dietetics for a year at Long Beach State and we had some challenges like that.  So I went and carefully picked through the aisles to find him his shopping list... no junk food, plenty of fresh vegies and fruits, protein, no bad fats.  Nothing organic, but that's an afterthought.  I could do it, but it really took some time and effort.  Your average person on a limited budget just isn't going to be able to do that.... and if they watch much TV, or hang out with like-minded people, they won't be interested anyway.  

I see nothing in our current media that would promote healthy living, especially commercials.  Never once is it suggested, during the plethora of drug commercials, that food or exercise might work as well as the drug.  

When my kids were in school, amazingly, Coke and Pizza Hut moved onto campus, supplied the schools books, where right there in the History book were actual ads for Coke and other fast foods. I could send my kid to school with some great lunches, but of course they're going to get swapped for pizza.  As time went on, I lost any relevance... in Berkeley they managed to plant organic gardens at the junior and high schools, but those were "tree huggers" and "librals"... eye-roll.   In my neighborhood, just trying to keep sugar donuts out of first grade classrooms was met with eye-rolls.  

----------------

Now I've got a neighbor kid who reminds me too much of my kid... 14, alone, sitting in his room all day with his XBox.  Dad disabled from the military and on pain meds.  They rarely shop for groceries. There's some serious depression going on there.  In this case, it's not money.  Dad has plenty.  But I have to look away.  I can't fix this.  

Add this on to Helen's #13 rant.  I'm just very disheartened.  

Take the kid  climbing.  

Russ Walling wrote:

Sorry, but the word “tribe” has now been “redacted”.

Yea, I know.  I was out looking for my redacteds.  (Awkward, but ok...   )

I confess, I roll my eyes at messing around with route names. Why not work on all those "squaw" place names? Far too many of those anyway. I admit, I like Denali. Much prettier name. 

Anyway. These musings prompted me to say Idaho's only glacier is official now. Borah glacier. What's left of it....

Idaho still has notably big mountains unnamed, and, in one category, 10s? maybe? still some unclimbed. Here though, they make no assumptions about being "first" up something. More than one peak was bravely conquered....and then they spotted the marker by the geological survey dudes, lol!

Anyway. I also wanted to throw in another rant or two.

The food thing? Yes, processed food is obvious. But? It's more subtle than that. Try to buy frozen veggies from a big brand name. Pick carefully! If the front says "seasoned", "sauce", "with", anything like that at all? It probably has sugar. In vegetables.

Okay. Off to the fresh foods, I'm gonna cook!

Except.

The nutrition has been bred out of veggies. Factory farming (and breeding) has lowered the nutrition even in animals. What you taste, in the difference between garden produce and grocery store? That taste that's missing? Is also the nutrition. Meat, is even sadder. Part (a small part, but still a part) of why people overeat meat, is a craving for what isn't there anymore. 

To my sorta radical old hippy militant mind, our food system is close to criminal.

Why are there Pepsi signs on every school ground?

Yes, money....but the flip side is the devaluing of education.

And here comes (uh, 13 again?) how rants tie in.

At one point in history?

Education was for males, and not universal. Teaching was a male profession. After it became a female profession also, and girls were there too? Hmmmm. It pays less. I'm sure that's a coincidence.

And....one that some on this thread may not like. You don't actually have to go to school. 

Why is it that we are so happily challenging what "old" is, without also helping "young" flip the entire system? And yes, some things are changing. Slowly.

It is yet another gift that we have, those of us with some miles on the odometer.

Perspective. Both, that yes, you can live through this, life can go on, but also, a great deal has changed, and considerably for the better. Gazillions of tiny little decisions eventually add up.

Now and then, you need to get angry and shout, maybe even throw stuff.

Most of the time?

Take the kid climbing. 

It's the subversive thing to do.

;-)

EDIT for a photo, I'm baking lately. This, is my ancient pan for LARGE muffins. Regular muffins and cupcakes were smaller.

Several years ago I started to hang out ,mostly online, with a bunch of renegade health advocates including many physicians and medical researchers ( of which I am not). Some of these folks have come to be called " mitochondriacs" others as " biohackers" and so on.

Early on I started to learn a lot from these people and my learning curve continues to be quite steep. One of the earliest bits of information I came across was the fact that the cornea of the eye has no endogenous blood supply. Where oh where does this key part of the eye get its oxygen supply I asked? I mean every functioning part of the body requires oxygen to produce energy via ECT in the mitochondria. " From the air, dummy" I was told. In other words, the oxygen that supplies the cornea does not come via the lungs but directly from the air that surrounds you. 

Then is eyesight affected by limiting oxygen , such as living at altitude? I was then told that the cornea's O2 requirement are  apparently low and in any case the retinal axis has ways to compensate, when push comes to shove. I asked if there were ways to asphyxiate one's eyes? "Not commonly" I was told "but you can get pretty close in a limited way"  How? " well, they're called contacts."

Then why don't people who wear contacts go blind? I discovered its because no one wears contacts around the clock, constantly. The way they are used would be like choking someone until they gasp for air and then backing off.only to resume choking them later.

Re contacts, I just have the onetime use ones, and only use them for climbing missions, pretty much.

Hey, old timers? How many female FAs or developers do you know who do/did the bolting end of developing? I've only met one female FA in person, and she only bolted one route. But, she did plenty of FAs, as part of the teams BITD.

Just curious.

And yes, it tickled me to just hold this, take a pic, before giving it back. City of Rocks history! :-)

Helen

Heidi Badorroco and Amy Whistler did fair bit of development in the Lander area in 90s, but that was in partnership with Paul Piana and Todd Skinner. There are more women bolting now, but yes, I am having a tough time recalling many old-timey women bolters. Perhaps Kadie Johnston in Rifle?

Most contacts now are permeable - different than the old-time hard lenses. I still need to give my eyes a break every now and then. I hate climbing in glasses - can’t see my feet. Maybe if I did it more I’d adapt.

Helen - I’ve placed bolts on several routes. There’s only 1 route where I had the FA but didn’t do the bolting. Also do a fair bit of rebolting to upgrade the local mank.

EDIT: actually that's not true - the route I was thinking of I went back and added a bolt later to protect the long run-out to the anchor. I guess there is one route where I was listed as part of the team (helped scope the line, clean and figure out where bolts should go) but I didn't drill anything and actually never climbed it! Generosity on the part of the FA to include me I guess.

Dallas

Bud is a good guy to get in touch with if you want to climb in the Moab area. 

You should go to the Ice Cream Parlor and Potash Road area. 30 Seconds Over Potash is an excellent climb. There are also some nice slab climbs along the road.

I believe that there are a couple of boondocking sites down Potash Road. You should also take a hike to see Corona Arch.

John

Oldtradguywrote:

 You should also take a hike to see Corona Arch.  John

Or take a hike and rap Corona Arch...  

2013

Old lady Hwrote:

And yes, it tickled me to just hold this, take a pic, before giving it back. City of Rocks history! :-)

Helen

That's a nice Wired Bliss cam. One of the first of its kind. I remember seeing one in Mari Gingery's hands up at Tahquitz. I'd never seen anything like it before...  

I have nothing to contribute to the food topic that hasn't already been said. This afternoon I'll go down to the market and buy some flavorless organic vegies...

Kristian Solemwrote:

That's a nice Wired Bliss cam. One of the first of its kind. I remember seeing one in Mari Gingery's hands up at Tahquitz. I'd never seen anything like it before...  

I have nothing to contribute to the food topic that hasn't already been said. This afternoon I'll go down to the market and buy some flavorless organic vegies...

Kristian,

That's a Wired Bliss, even though the tag on the sling says "Metolius"? It looks just like my yellow Metolius Power Cam.