New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14

This is interesting... 

https://youtu.be/-m_P_RzrQu4

Do we have a Gunsmoke-lite here in the Park?  I'm not ready for anything close to V6 bouldering.  But the sustained line of Gunsmoke is beautiful, and I would like to practice on a V0-1 in a similar way.

Also, (no derision, please)... there is so much slack-lining going on here, and it looks so fun.  I'd sure like to try it, 2 feet off the ground, not 200.  We had a slackline at the gym that really was fun, although 5 feet off the ground, and so I had to always have someone at my side to lean on just in case.  The embarrassing question I have is, if you do get out in the middle of an actual aerial slackline and fall, how do you get back up?  If you can't get back on the line, how to you get back to safety? 

I guess it had to happen, but there's a strange sense here that the movement is towards bouldering (even some regular climbers I know), and slacklining and away from roped climbing.  It's almost like the younger kids have made this their thing... reminds me of when we first got up on one water ski, and the rest of the world was still skiing on two.  

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It was so nice waking up to .. silence.  Tony and I had been staying in a hotel that happened to hang over the 80 freeway.  During the daytime if a window was open, you had to shout to be heard.  At night, the lights and the noise were pretty intense.  I would have checked us out, but Tony was in recovery.  Eventually we got used to the noise, but suddenly here the silence is just serene.  

We are just so happy to be 'home'.   

Just a question for those interested in answering:  have you noticed specific things that are improved or function better as a result of your climbing?  Don't know how to reword this.  My balance is MUCH improved from earlier days. I can stand on one foot longer (it's a standard test).  I can navigate around objects better than before.  My reaction time and reflexes are better than they were 20 yeas ago.  If something falls off a shelf, I usually catch it mid-air.  If I trip, I catch myself easily before I really fall.  I really believe my memory is improving--from reading rock and memorizing sequences.  I've just started to really notice some of the weird benefits of climbing, in terms of things that usually go to hell as we age.  

Lori Milaswrote:

Do we have a Gunsmoke-lite here in the Park?  I'm not ready for anything close to V6 bouldering.  But the sustained line of Gunsmoke is beautiful, and I would like to practice on a V0-1 in a similar way.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105722803/gripper-traverse

Hi Lori. When it's rigged way off the ground it's called highlining. Here's the longest one I've ever seen rigged at Joshua Tree (between the Snickers and Little Hunk formations).

Gunsmoke is nowhere near V6. And it's worth getting on even if you can't do the whole thing. If you do it left to right you'll be able to at least do a few moves before falling off. You can play on one section at a time and then possibly put it all together at some point.

Lori, highlines tend to sag in the middle, so they can't be right on the deck. Best rigging (friendliest to newbies) I've seen, was at a gym next town over. They rigged a highline in a alcove of the gym, with a net underneath. Climb up a route, slack line, fall off, clip back in to lower to the ground.

To get back up, you need to be able to hook the line with a leg and go from there. It's a skill to learn.

For me? With my knees? I think I'd like water to fall in, so I can stay relaxed and just take the fall, rather than jank a knee sideways trying to stay on.

Any yes! Climbing totally helps pretty much every bit of "old lady" stuff! The single thing that's most helpful? Body awareness. Hands, feet, grip, all of it. That's where all the other benefits come from. Similar to Tai Chi being offered as a "fall proof" class for older people. Climbing is better, though, for pragmatic reasons, but also for it being "extreme". A young persons thing. That? Is a huge benefit to mental attitude. Confronting actual death in a positive way. Taking charge of your body, circumstances, and perhaps influencing future outcomes in the process, but having immediate, in this instant immediate, rewards.

I have an alpinist/mountaineer/ice friend, still in his 30s. He has always been very athletic (former MMA competitor at national level), so he put workout stuff in his garage very early in the pandemic. He has a gym he can go to now (looks pretty empty) and he sends me vids now and then of him working out. Understand, he lifts heavy, does things like figure fours off his ice tools hung on a pull-up bar, treadmill runs with a pack, etc. 

Short version, ripped as hell.

The other day, I commented to him that, if I ever had even 10% of what he has? I can't even imagine.

Then I realized, that's the hard part. I have nothing except "better" to aim for. No "before", except "not that". "Not that" includes what I am right now. 

And the clock is ticking.

I know that "something else" is doable, and it will be very gratifying, I'm sure, but it comes down to the discipline needed to get there. So far, I only have the stick part of carrot and a stick. The fact that my knees (and climbing) are functioning better than in the past.

But just once? For the first time in my life?

I'd like the accomplishment of a truly fit body. Noticeably strong. 

Like 10% of my friend.

Maybe.....

Best, Helen

Oh, and Lori? Just look for bits of rock that will (maybe) let you try what you want to try. Ground level. I was dinking around on a chest high boulder, that had a diagonal edge sloping down, trying to see if I could figure out a viable heel hook off of it. A half heel hook, half lie back thing. 

The answer was no, but if you have a giant boulder field, no reason not to use it anyway you wish. Don't fall into the trap of routes or problems dictating where (and how) you climb. Assess safety, how to mitigate if needed, and just do it. Not always, but at least part of the time. Having no idea of the difficulty is sometimes a good thing!

At the very least, it's way more fun, imo!

Best, Helen

Lori- Gunsmoke is not V6. Who told you that?

One does the parts you can do- build some strength (guns) - keep at it.

And the kids do a bunch of stuff.... Skateboard, hi-flying Snow boarding, MotoCross- all the things old folks should not try to do cause you can become very broken- humpty dumpy style- and they won’t be able to put you back together again.

Getting Old- no way to sugar coat this: You loose “it” everyone has a running clock inside and as it clicks along you can feel the changes inside you.
I knew when to stop racing Karts - a huge voice screaming at me while I was packed inside an ambulance and trucked off to the hospital. Fun times.
Lots of climbing that I won’t even contemplate trying anymore. “The Bulch cracks” laugh at me when I drive by, they gave me a shot and the cracks won. El Cap won. I’m not bitter though I had my time- I still have my time to do what I like to do. Many people I know have simply quit climbing altogether because they can not equal what they could do before so they quit, buy an electric Mt. Bike and pedal off into the sunset.
The point? None really, except it’s still good to get up, get out, keep moving- to do otherwise is death.

Clark Jacobs died last week- he was one of the “boys”. He will be missed- all the boys are missed.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Gunsmoke is nowhere near V6. And it's worth getting on even if you can't do the whole thing. If you do it left to right you'll be able to at least do a few moves before falling off. You can play on one section at a time and then possibly put it all together at some point.

Thank you Brandt! Would you be willing to walk out there with me and give it a go?    

Bob Gaineswrote:

Hi Lori. When it's rigged way off the ground it's called highlining. Here's the longest one I've ever seen rigged at Joshua Tree (between the Snickers and Little Hunk formations).

Is that Jeremy up there? Because I’ve been seeing pictures, and I know what he’s up to.  The maternal part of me wants to say “You come down from there this instant!”  But the ‘’me” side says can I join you? Gosh that looks fun! 

This just went on my bucket list.  At least one time!

Lori Milaswrote:

Do we have a Gunsmoke-lite here in the Park?  I'm not ready for anything close to V6 bouldering.  But the sustained line of Gunsmoke is beautiful, and I would like to practice on a V0-1 in a similar way.

Gunsmoke is rated V3 and only for a few crux moves. It's actually a perfect boulder for you to work on, even the cruxes. 

Phyl and I went out and humbled ourselves on the Mel Cracks today. I got a picture of a magnificent Juniper tree nearby.

You can see Phyl in the upper right corner of the pic.

Old lady Hwrote:

I have an alpinist/mountaineer/ice friend, still in his 30s. He has always been very athletic (former MMA competitor at national level), so he put workout stuff in his garage very early in the pandemic. He has a gym he can go to now (looks pretty empty) and he sends me vids now and then of him working out. Understand, he lifts heavy, does things like figure fours off his ice tools hung on a pull-up bar, treadmill runs with a pack, etc. 

Short version, ripped as hell.

The other day, I commented to him that, if I ever had even 10% of what he has? I can't even imagine.

Then I realized, that's the hard part. I have nothing except "better" to aim for. No "before", except "not that". "Not that" includes what I am right now. 

And the clock is ticking.

I know that "something else" is doable, and it will be very gratifying, I'm sure, but it comes down to the discipline needed to get there. So far, I only have the stick part of carrot and a stick. The fact that my knees (and climbing) are functioning better than in the past.

But just once? For the first time in my life?

I'd like the accomplishment of a truly fit body. Noticeably strong. 

Like 10% of my friend.

Maybe.....

Best, Helen

I think one of the motivation issues is that we look at you tube videos and read training for climbing protocols and...its just too much.  There's a an increasing amount of research that indicates even very small amounts of training are beneficial.  I'd recommend picking a very small number of exercises and start out doing one set of  each of them once a week, increasing the frequency if the motivation increases, which I think it will if you aren't faced with the load of impossible tasks promoted on-line.  And pay no attention to anyone, including us, who posts daunting workouts.  Just say no.  You gotta start slow and easy.  No repetitions to failure either, just get a little tired.  The cool thing about not being in great shape is that you'll see progress.

I'm getting a lot of FB ads for exercise bands and handles.  A set of these, especially with the handles, seems to me to be a pretty good way to get started.  You can hook 'em up to doors and trees and railings, and that should be more than enough to get started.  Just beware that they may come with ridiculous workout prescriptions which you should instantly ignore.

For upper-body climbing strength, by far the best bang for your buck is extended lat pulldowns.  If at all possible, this should be a motion that begins with a pull from overhead to shoulder level and then continues in one motion with a press from shoulder level to straight arms extended down.  The pressing part is harder than the pulling part and so the resistance will have to be chosen to accomodate that.  Or, you could break the exercise into two parts, one the pull from overhead to shoulder with more resistance and a second with press from shoulder to arms extended down with less resistance. In order to keep muscles in balance at the shoulder joint, a band version of overhead dumbell presses would be good.  I think the best is to do however many you are gong to do divided into three groups at three different angles: almost straight up, at a 30 degree angle from vertical, and close to a 90 degree angle from vertical.  With dumbells, you'd do this with an adjustable incline bench, but with bands you have to be able to progressively raise the anchor point, say by attaching to a pole.

That's it for upper body; lat pulldowns and presses, one set each once a week.  Best to start with resistances that allow maybe 20 or so repetitions without having a heart attack, and slowly build up the resistance to around 8 reps, at which point you can consider whether you want to do more than one set.  Don't get anal about numbers and rest times either.  Pick levels that are fatiguing but not exhausting.

For lower body, its squats, hamstring curls, and calf-raises.  Knees might have something to say about this, but my knees are always better when my legs are stronger.  Don't think you have to drop ass to the grass; start with half-squats and maybe never do more than that.  By the way, I think squats are much easier on the knees than the popular and oft-recommended lunges, so I'd stay away from lunges at least at first and maybe forever.  Next come hamstring curls, either with resistance bands (standing or lying prone) or by lying on your back with feet elevated and raising the mid-section.  And finally calf-raises, both feet to start and later just one foot.

To cut down on time spent and fatigue, do the upper-body stuff one day and the lower-body stuff on another day,  Do it for a month or two and see if you want to up the frequency and/or do more than one set.  I'm guessing things will go much better and motivation will actually increase this way.

My two cents.

rgold -- Excellent!!

Slowly & consistently moving forward. Don't hurt yourself. You can get good at this.

Rgold that's great advice but what you describe as a lat pull down was never what I knew as a lat pull down. It never included the pushing motion, not that that's not a great exercise. 

One peice of kit worth investing in if one is starting off lifting weights is a kettlebell. Weight sets (at least new ones) are expensive. Either that or staying with just an EZ curl bar and something like 2 x 5 kg, 2 x 10 kg plates is a good starting point. If one gets an Olympic bar then just the weight of the bar can be enough to get going for some exercises like behind the neck triceps presses. 

In the CBC era (Carl Before Climbing) I lifted weights almost religiously at least three times a week, even when also doing PT sessions in the army every day. I was obsessed with it from age 16 to age 50. 

Funny thing us, just last night I was Googling weight sets, wondering if I should get back in to it; again, with just an EZ curl bar and a few plates... 

Got out bouldering on sat. stiff wind blowing ice pellets in my face made it a wee bit exciting.this pitch was a thinner than it looked and pretty interesting conditions. both boots punched through a curtain of ice into an air pocket between ice and rock. that made perfect ladder rungs so  I took this photo from a no hands rest. It looked too cool to pass up given I had suck good footholds.

  Conditions continued to be interesting up higher and the wind was a bit much so i bailed..   Wind blew the ropes into these nasty frozen bushes which is always unnerving.

Fortunately they pulled ok :)

This is a good discussion about strength training and fitness.  I'm feeling discouraged, maybe by unrealistic expectations.  After sitting in a hotel room for 2 weeks, I came back ready to step up some cardio.  We have a trail here, (Ryan's Trail) that is 3 mile round trip, with about 1000 foot rise. On the way up it's mostly set stones, a foot or so at a time--this is the first time i've used walking sticks just to see if they help (they do).  For me, it's a real challenge to make it even part way up that mountain... I've pushed a little further each day to see if I can go just another fifty yards before turning around.  But I make frequent stops to catch my breath.  And while I'm doing that, runners breeze on by.  

Senor comes to mind as someone who has good endurance and fitness, with riding his bike so much, running stairs.  I've never touched anything close to that.  

So I'm wondering if it gets easier, gets better...   

There are places I'd like to go where apparently some endurance and fitness are the main issues. (like Tahquitz or even walking out to the Astro Dome).  There are some routes I'd like to climb that are starting to look like, once again, endurance/stamina is the issue more than particular strength.  I have the strength to make most of those moves, but not endlessly.  In fact, I tuckered out at the last third of Double Cross, which wasn't the crux--I was just plain fatigued.   

So, I wonder if cardio and stamina has a hard limit, or one that can be increased over time.  

And then there are those heartrate charts that seem to decrease with age... "Maximum heartrate" based upon age.  Which leaves me to wonder if we are supposed to have a beating heart at all.    

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A piece of good news (for me) is that there is a new piece of technology for us Type 1 Diabetics that is a real game-changer, and I have had it for the last month.  It's an insulin pump and glucose reader (you might have seen it in a Super Bowl ad for Dexcom).  While it by no means takes away all the grief of diabetes, it allows for much better management.  I was able to hike those trails this week without a single low blood sugar. A good range is 80-120 glucose for humans.  When I made my last step off that trail I was at exactly 100.  No gulping 7-Ups along the way.  No near emergencies when I'm too far from my car to get help.  It would be nice that this one thing is easier, as I try to climb harder this year.    

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Ok, lastly... I told him to take it back but he won't.     While watching the Super Bowl Tony said "Lori, the worst wide receiver would be a better climber than most climbers out there."  He has modified it a bit, says it wasn't quite that harsh.  But he did say "Go ahead, run it by 'your people'. If they know football they'll agree."  So... 

Your endurance will improve! It takes a little work but you will get better! 

Tony's wrong. A friend of mine was a trainer for the Raiders in the 1980s & he brought out several receivers all very nice, all blown away by what we were doing. He brought them as a person they had to put up with & left with their respect!

Lori Milaswrote:

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Ok, lastly... I told him to take it back but he won't.     While watching the Super Bowl Tony said "Lori, the worst wide receiver would be a better climber than most climbers out there."  He has modified it a bit, says it wasn't quite that harsh.  But he did say "Go ahead, run it by 'your people'. If they know football they'll agree."  So... 

Gotta sort of agree with that.  But not just WR's - how about your typical gymnast?

While we're talking training.  I haven't really climbed much during covid times.  So I took up hangboarding.  Made good progress - enough so that when I did get to climb, I was able to do a route or two at decent grade (for me) in good form.  Then life got in the way (holidays and an unplanned move) and I had to stop for six weeks due to time constraints.  Just started up again a few weeks ago.  I was back at square one.  

A bit demoralizing, and I made the mistake of pushing myself a bit too hard.  Turns out at 50, that's not a good idea.  I seem to have strained my forearm on one arm, and have taken the last week and a half off, waiting for the damn thing to feel better (it still hurts a little, even just typing) so I can go back to square one again.

GO