SF Bay Area - Bad Bolts

Cal Fire did an amazing job holding the fire line at Ida Clayton toll road and prevented what could have been 1000’s of acres of additional destruction. No areas of Mt. St. Helena or any of the climbing sectors were burned during the Kincade Fire which is now contained. There was a temporary closure of RLS State Park which I understand is now lifted.

Since this thread is about bad bolts I will just add that the condition of the hardware installed throughout MSH has never been better. Earlier this year some fun new routes were installed creating options to disperse climbers and reduce crowding in popular areas like the recently rebolted/restored Bubble Rock. 

Maybe instead of complaining about new hardware needed grab the bull by the horn and DIY, just a thought!!!

Ps be a climbing community hero and put in some time and make your local crag better, cleaner, safer, happy climbing!!!

Eric, YOU ROCK!!!! I had been up there once post fire, and it was a sad sight to see. I remember seeing the remains of the fixed rope over the outcropping bulge. I'll try to do my part in keeping the trail in good shape if I head up that way!

At Cragmont Park there are a few loose/old bolts and some spinners which are mostly at the anchors. https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/113180735 

I got to climb Hailstone Arete again today and the new chains were awesome and well placed. Thanks again, Eric!

Michael Behrend wrote: At Cragmont Park there are a few loose/old bolts and some spinners which are mostly at the anchors. https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/113180735 

Those are good modern 3/8" bolts (good for around 10,000 pounds of force each).
There is apparently a common misconception that if a hanger moves, the bolt is bad, but this is not true.
There is a little bit of surface rust on the hex heads of the bolts, so they are non-stainless,
but that rust does not go very deep.

Clint Cummins wrote:

Right - the bolts, nuts and hangers are perfect stainless,

but probably someone later added the non-galvanized quicklinks and chain.
They will not last 20 years in salty/wet location, and will make a rust streak.
Maybe best to just remove the chains and replace with stainless quicklink and single link on each bolt.

The 316 grade SS wedge bolts we once thought were the best thing for coastal climbs in the Bay Area are actually really sketchy (5 have broken under body weight or less!) Almost all of them have been replaced with SS or Titanium glue ins, but there are still a few lurking around that should be replaced. Ironically, the lower grade SS wedge bolts have never broken - just the 316, which are identifiable by their (relative) lack of rust. They break at the threads near the hanger and I think it's due to stress corrosion cracking (SCC).

Jim Thornburg wrote: The 316 grade SS wedge bolts we once thought were the best thing for coastal climbs in the Bay Area are actually really sketchy (5 have broken under body weight or less!) Almost all of them have been replaced with SS or Titanium glue ins, but there are still a few lurking around that should be replaced. Ironically, the lower grade SS wedge bolts have never broken - just the 316, which are identifiable by their lack of rust. They break at the threads near the hanger and I think it's due to stress corrosion cracking (SCC).

Jim- do you know if the bolts on Naked and Disfigured are the 316’s ? They look rusty so maybe the lower grade? 

Christian Wagner wrote:

Jim- do you know if the bolts on Naked and Disfigured are the 316’s ? They look rusty so maybe the lower grade? 

Hi Christian, those are 316 I'm pretty sure, and they do have some surface rust. I should have said "relative" lack of rust. Those are the kind that sometimes break. That is on the list for replacement. It's still a long list! Hopefully we can get to it soon.

• EDIT* we rebolted Brain on Drugs, Sign Language and Sunny Side up. Most of the crag is now Titanium.

Jim Thornburg wrote: Hi Christian, those are 316 I'm pretty sure, and they do have some surface rust. I should have said "relative" lack of rust. Those are the kind that sometimes break. That is on the list for replacement. It's still a long list! Hopefully we can get to it soon.

What material exactly are the U bots at Mickey's Jim? 

I feel like stress corrosion cracking hasn't gotten a lot of attention in more temperate climates and that experience is still low. I love hearing everyone's observations locally. 

Since corona Mickey's is seeing more pressure from newer climbers. Top ropes on Corner Route or Left Slab are the go to as always. 

Corner Route has the U-Bolt flanked by 2 highly corroded rawl drives, the button heads of which are mostly gone now. However the stainless hangers look nice. The problem here is that most of climbers that TR the route are observed to clip into these ONLY and do not utilize the U-Bolt. (See pic) 

When asked why many say they don't know how to incorporate 3 anchor points, they brought pre-constructed slings for 2 anchor points, and when choosing what points to clip into... the SS hanger's seemed familiar, and thus the U-bolt is selected to be left out. To them a bolt is a bolt and they are all infallible. 

The button heads are thinner than the picture shows and this seems to have become a mouse trap.

Left slab has a U bolt and a single rod glue-in where the 'A eye' wasn't counter sunk. These are ok but I see it get set up regularly with a sliding X over the edge and no redundancy as the edge saws at it above the dogging climber. 

Neither of these TR should be a problem but because of what's been going on as of late perhaps they deserve some 'idiot proofing' sooner rather than later.  

I considered removing the rawl drives and adding a Ti glue-in to reduce the potential for badness. +/- Extending some rings over that edge. 

Is this already on someone's to do list?

Rich T wrote:

What material exactly are the U bots at Mickey's Jim? 

I feel like stress corrosion cracking hasn't gotten a lot of attention in more temperate climates and that experience is still low. I love hearing everyone's observations locally. 

Since corona Mickey's is seeing more pressure from newer climbers. Top ropes on Corner Route or Left Slab are the go to as always. 

Corner Route has the U-Bolt flanked by 2 highly corroded rawl drives, the button heads of which are mostly gone now. However the stainless hangers look nice. The problem here is that most of climbers that TR the route are observed to clip into these ONLY and do not utilize the U-Bolt. (See pic) 

When asked why many say they don't know how to incorporate 3 anchor points, they brought pre-constructed slings for 2 anchor points, and when choosing what points to clip into... the SS hanger's seemed familiar, and thus the U-bolt is selected to be left out. To them a bolt is a bolt and they are all infallible. 

The button heads are thinner than the picture shows and this seems to have become a mouse trap.

Left slab has a U bolt and a single rod glue-in where the 'A eye' wasn't counter sunk. These are ok but I see it get set up regularly with a sliding X over the edge and no redundancy as the edge saws at it above the dogging climber. 

Neither of these TR should be a problem but because of what's been going on as of late perhaps they deserve some 'idiot proofing' sooner rather than later.  

I considered removing the rawl drives and adding a Ti glue-in to reduce the potential for badness. +/- Extending some rings over that edge. 

Is this already on someone's to do list?

Wow...

The U-bolts are 316 SS. They've been in service since 1990 with no issues.

https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/120132546

Possibly related to the Snyder/Cooper bolting effort?

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119482266/shawn-snyder-via-ferrata-stupidity?page=3

mat wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/120132546

Possibly related to the Snyder/Cooper bolting effort?

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119482266/shawn-snyder-via-ferrata-stupidity?page=3

It seems to be a new hole for a new fix, maybe he/they have still to finish the work.

2 lockers and LOL

I have used that anchor and don't see a need for any extension, chains or any upgrades, but won’t stop anyone :) 

Summit Rock : University of Santa Clara Practice Climb 1 - scary rusted and loose bolts at the anchor.  

Another vote for replacing some of the hardware at Last Temptation Cliff. Just climbed there and the old bolts are still there; definitely wasn't stoked about most of them. Unfortunately the easiest sport warm-up had the worst bolts, which is a bit worrisome since Castle Rock is a popular option for those transitioning from the gym.

Would be willing to volunteer my time for rebolting efforts if anyone wants to teach me how to bolt. Regardless, kudos to whoever takes care of it.

On Last Temptation Cliff, I suggest adding chains to anchors over the edge to reduce rope drag on Go I Know Not To Wither

Preeti P wrote:

On Last Temptation Cliff, I suggest adding chains to anchors over the edge to reduce rope drag on Go I Know Not To Wither

chains, going over an edge on sandstone, is going to cause some serious erosion.  seems like the anchor should be below the edge.

old5ten wrote:

chains, going over an edge on sandstone, is going to cause some serious erosion.  seems like the anchor should be below the edge.

Perhaps, but the rope will saw into the sandstone as its pulled (rope drag).  

I'm not sure why the anchors were set back.  Stronger in sandstone?