Very bad at hangboarding. Help?

So, I have a couple questions for you guys.  The first is about what seems like an inconsistency in my strength.  I can confidently climb 5.12 sport climbs and up to 11+ over gear.  I haven't projected many boulders, but my hardest send thus far is V5.  The interesting thing, though, is that my finger strength seems to be awful.  I recently began to do max hangs and on a 20mm edge, I can barely hold my bodyweight for 10 seconds.  This seems fairly inconsistent with my climbing partners who may not be able to climb as hard of grades as me, but can crush my hang boarding weights.  The same is true with repeaters.  Maybe I am hangboarding wrong?  Any advice, or someone who knows more about this telling me its normal would be cool!

The second question is kind of related. I finished a cycle of repeaters a couple weeks ago and saw excellent strength endurance gains from it which allowed me to feel a lot more confident on longer pumpier routes. I do, however, feel that my maximum strength is still lacking (based off my inability to boulder very hard). I was thinking of following up my repeaters cycle with a max hangs cycle and switching back and forth between the two (with rest between cycles). Has anyone done this or can give me some advice on whether or not this is a bad idea?

Thanks!

Are you using lattice 20 mm edge?

(I’m asking bc I think there is a big difference between boards, snd not all “20mm” edges are the same. I was doing 20mm max weight hangs with 1.4x body weight on the hangboard I had access to. Then I tried on lattice 20mm, and all of a sudden I could barely do 1.2x body weight for 10sec)

anyhow, regardless of which board you use, it sounds like you could benefit from doing max hangs. There are lots of protocols out there. If you are following any sort of structured plan, I would do the max hangs during your strength/power bouldering stage, maybe 4-5 weeks or so. Max hangs don’t take too much time, if you follow lattice protocol, it’s only 6 sets of 10 sec hangs, with 2 min rests, so it takes just over 10 min. (at 85% max that you determine on 7 sec dead hangs) 

You can even do it in the morning of the same day as you go bouldering in the evening.

And yes, after doing max hangs for several weeks, you should switch things up, maybe to min edge next? 

Hangboarding is tricky and requires some getting used to. As someone that is definitely a confident 5.12 climber myself (some say the best 5.12 climber, people are saying it not me), it all comes down to body positioning. A few questions for you that might help you think about this a bit differently.

1. Are your shoulders engaged while hanging? This will make it more difficult at first, but is better for the joints/muscles and will help align your body under the holds. Don't have your shoulders in your ears, keep them active and pulling down.
2. Are you able to hang freely? Meaning, do you need to curl up your knees because your hangboard isn't high enough (or if youre some sort of tall freak). If thats the case, do you curl your feet under and behind or are you holding your knees up in front of you? It takes additional energy to pull up your feet so they aren't dragging. Maybe consider mounting the hangboard higher or work on core to hold your legs (we all know you need it)
3. When hanging, what do your elbows look like? Are they straight or bent? Having the proper angle for your elbow can make a huge difference and help to avoid injury. Check out some hangboarding videos by some training peeps (Eric Horst, Tom Randal, Ondra) to see proper technique. This is one of my favorites https://youtu.be/2wvV6wdXM_M
4. How hard are you really trying? Are your hands opening up on the holds and you feel yourself sliding off? Or are you scared to slip and so you let go earlier than maybe you should? There's a difference between pushing hard to hold on for the last 2 seconds when you feel your hand opening and struggling when you're only half way through the rep. You need to learn where that balance lies and adjust your weight according. Theres a fine line between pushing hard and injury, so be delicate.
5. You say your friends can hang much better than you, so what are your friends doing differently? Either watch them hangboard or ask for some videos of them. Then film yourself and compare. This will help to visualize my above points on shoulders, legs, elbows. Can also compare yourself to the pros, but thats not as much fun.

Best of luck! Let me know if you have any follow up questions

@Lena
Im using the rock prodigy hangboard on the medium edge.

@Taylor
Will you send me videos of yourself?  As the best 5.12 climber, I just feel like I have a lot to learn from you.  We can even do a trade.  I will show you how to ringlock and then maybe you will be able to climb as hard as me over gear.  Not that I really know how hard you climb on gear, some just say you are a 5.10 trad climber.  I dont say it, people do.  As for using my abs on the hangboard, maybe that little extra ab workout has been making me strong enough to boulder competently.  That could be something maybe you should try.  Even though you're not a tall freak, it might help!

m jwrote:

@Lena
Im using the rock prodigy hangboard on the medium edge.

there are basically two really wide edges on the RP board.  are you using the upper one (deeper/easier) or the lower one (shallower/harder)?  are you using the far outside part of the edge (shallower/harder), or the middle (deeper/easier), or farthest inside section of the edge (deepest/easiest)?

there will be a pretty big difference between these positions.

another question (as somebody else pointed out) - which grip are you using? 3 finger open grip? 4 finger open/half crimp?

Lots of good comments above.

The only thing I would add, since you're just starting out with hangboarding, would be to not obsess too much over max hangs and/or on just a specific edge type. A few ideas:

• Include those hangs in your warmup routine. For warmup, use foot on (my gym has foot rests just behind the boards, or some sort of bench/chair can do). Warmup this way including a variety of edges, from larger to thinner, with more/less weight on your feet, etc.
• Campus board can also be great for that warmup - again campus with foot on, I typically do something like 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1, on progressively smaller rungs. Then you can do longer reaches like 1-3-5-3-1
• Visit the smaller edges. Even if your current metric is on the 20mm max hang, and you want to see improvement on that, use the smaller ones. Add footrest as needed to make that work. On the smaller edges, I usually start with both feet on a bench, and progressively load on the edges. On the smaller ones I cannot even take the full weight off the feet, but that's not the goal.

I find that hangboard is kinda like hold a crimp, but not really. Hence why I suggest you spend, generally speaking, time exploring edges & hangs in a variety of ways and not be shy about putting some weights on the feet as well.

I feel your pain, my friend. This tool from Lattice is nice: latticetraining.com/my-fing…. Basically tells you how your finger strength compares to other climbers that climb routes/boulders of similar difficulty. Sounds like you'll probably get a report like mine that says, "wow, you have very weak fingers for being able to climb as hard as you do." Interesting but maybe not super helpful.

slimwrote:

there are basically two really wide edges on the RP board.  are you using the upper one (deeper/easier) or the lower one (shallower/harder)?  are you using the far outside part of the edge (shallower/harder), or the middle (deeper/easier), or farthest inside section of the edge (deepest/easiest)?

there will be a pretty big difference between these positions.

another question (as somebody else pointed out) - which grip are you using? 3 finger open grip? 4 finger open/half crimp?

Im using the lower rail and inside most part with a 4-finger open grip.

m jwrote:

Im using the lower rail and inside most part with a 4-finger open grip.

I have both hangboards, so I just tried the RP lower/inside rail vs lattice. The inside-most part on RP, where the index finger rests, is a touch deeper than lattice 20mm, but the edge profile is pretty similar. I think the RP edge is easier that hang on, bc of the grippy texture, and you also have a bit of extra support from the side of the index finger touching the end of the slot.

Some people are stronger in open-hand, some are stronger in half-crimp. I used to be weak in open hand hangs, but after multiple rounds of hangboard I was stronger in open hand drag than in half crimp. So now I’m hanging in half-crump...

But all of this is kinda moot point. It doesn’t matter exactly which edge you use, and which grip you would start with (not full crimp though!), as long as you use the same edge/same grip position consistently for a period of several weeks. And it does sound like you could benefit from max hangs, bc you are relatively weak in it, for your climbing level. Just make sure you have a good form, pick a consistent grip you want to use, and go for it. 

Most the advice above is good. If you do feel that it is almost impossible to hang body weight you cant mount an eye bolt and attach yourself to a counter weight. 

I have a metioulous 3d that I filled one edge in to be 20 mm this makes me wonder how one arm hangs would go on a different board. Does anyone have a general difference between their performance on wood vs plastic? On my Metolius I can do 1 arm with 15lbs of assistance(most calculators call that v8/v9 which seems way too high).  

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Most the advice above is good. If you do feel that it is almost impossible to hang body weight you cant mount an eye bolt and attach yourself to a counter weight. 

... On my Metolius I can do 1 arm with 15lbs of assistance(most calculators call that v8/v9 which seems way too high).  

Yeah dude, I have the pulley system setup for the repeaters I was doing.  Definitely a good call though.

As far as pullups go, I have found it has no bearing on how hard I can climb.  Last year I broke my ankle and trained pullups to the point where I could do a clean 1 arm pullup with each arm without taking weight off and 5 both arms with 55 lbs added but when I got back to climbing, my RP grades hadnt changed at all!  Where are you finding that conversion from 1 arms to bouldering grade?

Also, thank you guys for all the insight, especially @Lena.  Much appreciated :)

m jwrote:

Yeah dude, I have the pulley system setup for the repeaters I was doing.  Definitely a good call though.

As far as pullups go, I have found it has no bearing on how hard I can climb.  Last year I broke my ankle and trained pullups to the point where I could do a clean 1 arm pullup with each arm without taking weight off and 5 both arms with 55 lbs added but when I got back to climbing, my RP grades hadnt changed at all!  Where are you finding that conversion from 1 arms to bouldering grade?

Also, thank you guys for all the insight, especially @Lena.  Much appreciated :)

BeastFingers if you weren't able to climb for awhile but cameback at your prior climbing fitness I would consider that a win. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

BeastFingers if you weren't able to climb for awhile but cameback at your prior climbing fitness I would consider that a win. 

Haha, I suppose that is true!  

Dan Daugherty wrote:

I struggle to hang body weight on the 15mm edge of my Metolius wood grips board but can do multiple pullups on a 15mm edge if it's on the plastic hangboard in the gym.

i have used many different hangboards and rungs over the years, and have also found a large variability.  even just between wood boards/rungs.  obviously friction is a big one.  slope of the edge is another - if it is grippy a little bit of slope can be helpful as you can hang with your fingers a bit more open and less angle-of-attack, which can be strenuous.  too much slope and it is really hard.  if the edge has a really sharp corner this can make it harder due to needing more angle of attack.

the various equations etc for hanging weight versus a certain grade are kind of flawed for that reason.  too much variability.

instead,  i generally went by the amount of weight i could hang on the same edge at the peak of this season versus the peak of last season.  in my experience, after numerous seasons of hangboarding (ie not quick gains anymore) if my best was 5 lbs heavier than previous season, i typically would be able to eek out a letter grade harder redpoint.

m jwrote:

So, I have a couple questions for you guys.  The first is about what seems like an inconsistency in my strength.  I can confidently climb 5.12 sport climbs and up to 11+ over gear.  I haven't projected many boulders, but my hardest send thus far is V5.  The interesting thing, though, is that my finger strength seems to be awful.  I recently began to do max hangs and on a 20mm edge, I can barely hold my bodyweight for 10 seconds.  This seems fairly inconsistent with my climbing partners who may not be able to climb as hard of grades as me, but can crush my hang boarding weights.  The same is true with repeaters.  Maybe I am hangboarding wrong?  Any advice, or someone who knows more about this telling me its normal would be cool!

The second question is kind of related. I finished a cycle of repeaters a couple weeks ago and saw excellent strength endurance gains from it which allowed me to feel a lot more confident on longer pumpier routes. I do, however, feel that my maximum strength is still lacking (based off my inability to boulder very hard). I was thinking of following up my repeaters cycle with a max hangs cycle and switching back and forth between the two (with rest between cycles). Has anyone done this or can give me some advice on whether or not this is a bad idea?

Thanks!

This is all excellent news for you. You’ve got weak fingers for the grades you climb, implying your mental game and technique are relatively good. That’s good as the latter factors are usually harder to address than finger strength. See your relatively poor fingerboard performance is an opportunity not a threat!

You’ve had some good ‘strength endurance’ gains, as you would expect from doing repeaters which are largely a ‘strength endurance’ exercise. Max. hangs are good to try next. If hanging for 10 seconds is nearly your max. this is a good place to start. You’ll get better at this fairly quickly. Then add load.

Some folk like to do max. hangs in a block, alternating with repeaters, others like to do them in parallel. There are arguments for both approaches and it’s unlikely that one size fits all. Perhaps try doing a block of max. hangs to get used to this exercise and see how you get on?  

I'd like to add one more thing. How hot/humid is it wherever you hangboard? That can make a huge difference on how the holds feel. Its probably best to avoid putting your hangboard upstairs near the hottest room in your place. If that is the only spot...then buy a little fan with a clip on it. I had the fan clipped on to the top of the plywood my board was mounted on, pointing down at my fingers. Makes a huge difference!

^^^that might be it, as well - do you chalk up to hangboard? It really does make a huge difference (espiacially if you're training other stuff at the same time... even like free weights, grabbing the bars will make your hand slippery)

That is happening sometimes. I've been looking at my climbing assessment results at test4climbing.com and there are several people like you. It seems strength is not so crucial as people say. 

Franck Veewrote:

^^^that might be it, as well - do you chalk up to hangboard? It really does make a huge difference (espiacially if you're training other stuff at the same time... even like free weights, grabbing the bars will make your hand slippery)

Confirmed. At least (my experience) on a plastic hangboard, not chalking reduces the amount of workout you can get because you spend half the time trying not to slip off, especially on slopers.

Hey Mac! I wanted to check in to see how the hangboarding is going. Its been about 6 months, so I'd assume by now you've quit your job and have moved into a van. #VanLife am I right? What sort of gains did you notice from your time spent training? I'm interested to know if you've been able to get past that 5.10 plateau that you said you've been stuck at for a few years. Well I guess you didn't say it, but people are saying it. I know one of your original goals was to get stronger so you weren't the weakest climber among your friends. Any luck with that? I imagine your friends just got stronger too, so you're probably still behind. But thats okay, I bet you're a great belay partner