Rope Unstuck: Is it still safe?

Hello all,

I was climbing in Red Rocks and had to deal with the classic rope stick situation on the end of Solar Slab. We pulled the rope and just before it pulled through the rappel anchors the tail end got stuck. We cranked on the rope and we heard a loud snap noise and all but 1 foot of the rope came down. It appears that the rope got stuck and we managed to sever off the end, but my concern is how much strain we put the rope through. I recut and cauterized the end of the rope and there are no obvious flat spots or core-shot points on the rope, but is it safe? Also it was a brand new rope so I am partial to getting rid of it, but would rather find a new rope that's safe if my current situation is unsafe.

No idea how to answer your question, but I'd be interested in hearing any solutions to avoiding the rope sticking in the first place.  

Odd....?

I find it curious that you could break a rope just by yarding on it, even if it was going over a sharp edge. I'd definitely retire it.

I'd worry about any rope that you can sever with bodyweight.

Ropes shouldn't break in that situation.  

It had to be severed by something pretty sharp.  Makes me wonder what was at the rap station that was sharp enough to cut through a rope.  

Just a guess, and I am not an engineer, so stop reading there...

but surely the rope was cut at whatever point it was stuck.  So you didn't pull the rope to its breaking point, you just applied enough pressure at a specific spot to cut the rope.  Which is how all cuts happen.  If I had to make a guess, in the process of yarding on it, you pulled it back and forth across an edge while loaded a bunch of times, which abraided it until there was enough gone that the rest could snap.

If its long enough for what I do, I'd probably still use it

But you do you.

just curious, do you have a photo of the stuck/broken end?

Are you sure you didn't just pop the tape off the end?

You called it the classic rope stick situation but said it was just before the rope pulled through the anchor. The classic situation is as the rope is falling. If it was stuck in a crack just below the anchor it may have been hard to create a sawing action because the anchor would create a fixed angle down to the tail. It seems like it would be hard to create enough force to cut the rope by pulling without a sawing action. Especially as your force on the end of the rope would have been reduced by the friction  going through the anchor. Are you sure about the configuration as stated. Regardless, it would be impossible to damage parts of the rope not caught on a sharp edge by simple pulling if the rope was new and otherwise undamaged. The fact that you were even able to do that raises suspicions about the rope unless you can verify the ability of that edge to cut the rope so “easily. The snap noise may have been the anchor hardware slapping on the rock.        Edit: could the rope have been caught on a sharp piece of metal on the anchor. Solar slab doesn’t have a lot of sharp rock 

slimwrote:

Are you sure you didn't just pop the tape off the end?

Yes, I had just put a halfway mark on the rope the week before and when I recoiled the rope, the halfway was about 12 inches off from center. 

Gunkiemikewrote:

I'd worry about any rope that you can sever with bodyweight.

It wasn't just one person. there were three of us yanking on this like we were pirates hoisting a sail. yo-ho

Greg Rwrote:

You called it the classic rope stick situation but said it was just before the rope pulled through the anchor. The classic situation is as the rope is falling. If it was stuck in a crack just below the anchor it may have been hard to create a sawing action because the anchor would create a fixed angle down to the tail. It seems like it would be hard to create enough force to cut the rope by pulling without a sawing action. Especially as your force on the end of the rope would have been reduced by the friction  going through the anchor. Are you sure about the configuration as stated. Regardless, it would be impossible to damage parts of the rope not caught on a sharp edge by simple pulling if the rope was new and otherwise undamaged. The fact that you were even able to do that raises suspicions about the rope unless you can verify the ability of that edge to cut the rope so “easily. The snap noise may have been the anchor hardware slapping on the rock.        Edit: could the rope have been caught on a sharp piece of metal on the anchor. Solar slab doesn’t have a lot of sharp rock 

The only reason I've been skeptical to this idea is that we made sure to pull all the rap knots and everything, and I would figure that any little pigtail in the rope would have come out with far less force and any small "Solar Slab-esque" sandstone feature would have broken with far less force. It was already very dark out at the time so I really can't be certain that this was the configuration of the rope, however i was able to keep the slack out of the rope while pulling it up until the point it got stuck. I feel like I would have felt the rope fall out of the anchors or something.

I got $50 bucks that says your sheath shifted about 10-12 inches due to your yarding on the rope, and you didn’t actually snap off a foot of rope.  If you can produce a pic of both pieces I’ll send you the money.  

I’d be totally flabbergasted if 10 guys could cut a foot off a rope like that.   Weird things happen for sure, but I think my money is safe.  

Mark Pilatewrote:

I got $50 bucks that says your sheath shifted about 10-12 inches due to your yarding on the rope, and you didn’t actually snap off a foot of rope.  If you can produce a pic of both pieces I’ll send you the money.  

I’d be totally flabbergasted if 10 guys could cut a foot off a rope like that.   Weird things happen for sure, but I think my money is safe.  

Mark is right. The rope didn't snap, no way. Center marks can be off a little, sheath can shift, and as you coil from center your hands can slip a little. 

Mark Pilatewrote:

I got $50 bucks that says your sheath shifted about 10-12 inches due to your yarding on the rope, and you didn’t actually snap off a foot of rope.  ...

But if this was true, wouldn't the half of the rope they yarded on be longer, not shorter?

Austin Frekingwrote:

It wasn't just one person. there were three of us yanking on this like we were pirates hoisting a sail. yo-ho

The force of 3 big pirates pulling on a rope minus the drag going around the anchor comes out something less than 2 kn. That shouldn’t shear a rope. I’m going for the sheath shift theory. I have a question, is the end of the rope marked with two pieces of tape about a half inch apart, or, a particularly wide piece of tape. I have seen this configuration absolutely refuse to pull through a rap chain link  of just the right size when the tape prevented the rope from straightening right at the last moment. We pulled and pulled, climbed back up to see a kink in the rope 2” from the end that wouldn’t budge.           Edit: the sheath would only have to shift 6 inches to one side to make it look like 12 inches got cut off. Add the possibility of a couple inches of error when marking and/or measuring and it’s looking quite plausible. 

Mark Pilatewrote:

I got $50 bucks that says your sheath shifted about 10-12 inches due to your yarding on the rope, and you didn’t actually snap off a foot of rope.  If you can produce a pic of both pieces I’ll send you the money.  

I’d be totally flabbergasted if 10 guys could cut a foot off a rope like that.   Weird things happen for sure, but I think my money is safe.  

I think your $50 is completely safe.. weird stuff happens but 3 guys aren't cutting through the whole rope a foot from the end without being at it for about a week unless they are pulling it back and forth over a serrated knife... I'd place a bet that the factory end just ripped off, do that with enough pull/snap and the center mark of the rope is going to move... if it was my rope I wouldn't even think twice about continuing to use it...

No idea what happened to OP without more details, but a lot of you guys are wildly misled regarding how easy it is to cut a rope. Video in the middle of this page should be required viewing: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Appendix-3--Detail-of-installation-on-one-rope-with-two-ascenders?ActivityName=Multi-pitch-climbing

"Just body weight" dragging the same  short section of rope repeatedly over a sharp edge will absolutely cut your rope. Imagine a couple of dudes yarding on a stuck rope that became "accidentally fixed" over a sharp edge...how many times are they gonna yank on it? How many times did the dude in the video do the same thing before his rope cut over that obtusely-angled concrete edge?

No disagreement in principle Pat.  I’m going by the given details here.   Solar slab, the end caught at the anchors, big pull and a sudden snap.  My $50 says sheath/core shift over tension cut.   Some mystery edge may have presented itself around the anchor, but I still think my money is safe.

My 10 guy example is breaking a rope with a fixed end, not over an edge.  I don’t think any edges were involved here. 

Pat Lightwrote:

No idea what happened to OP without more details, but a lot of you guys are wildly misled regarding how easy it is to cut a rope. Video in the middle of this page should be required viewing: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Appendix-3--Detail-of-installation-on-one-rope-with-two-ascenders?ActivityName=Multi-pitch-climbing

"Just body weight" dragging the same  short section of rope repeatedly over a sharp edge will absolutely cut your rope. Imagine a couple of dudes yarding on a stuck rope that became "accidentally fixed" over a sharp edge...how many times are they gonna yank on it? How many times did the dude in the video do the same thing before his rope cut over that obtusely-angled concrete edge?

Good point, Except, OP said it was just before rope pulled thru anchor so not much rope available for stretching, no back and forth sawing motion, and no sharp edges on that sandstone slab. More likely the rope would cut a deep groove in the rock and never break.Also your video shows the sheath shredding but the core intact. They would have felt the sheath give way and pulled it easily while the rope (core) was still stuck. I would definitely say the $50 is a safe bet.