Post Other (Not Awesome) Trad Videos Here

Long Rangerwrote:

Yes, but placebos have been proven to actually have an effect. 

Absolutely - I fully expect them to give me all the confidence necessary to perfectly execute the correct sequences on all cruxes encountered above said placebos.

Franck Veewrote:

Absolutely - I fully expect them to give me all the confidence necessary to perfectly execute the correct sequences on all cruxes encountered above said placebos.

Billy has some instructional videos on YouTube. The blind leading the blind... Yikes

Delaney Bray-Stonewrote:

Billy has some instructional videos on YouTube. The blind leading the blind... Yikes

I like how if you follow the video progression it just goes: gumby at climbing, gumby at ziplining (briefly), and ends with gumby at ninja warrior...dude's living his best life and at least he's not trying to kill himself and others anymore haha

EDIT: This is by no means an endorsement of Billy, but check out this absolute BEAST:

Billy the GOAT

Jeezus... those last two lead videos were stressful. 

When Billy weighted that first piece....    

Here's one from YouTube, about 20 minutes long. Have at it...

https://youtu.be/xI0OUaNGAYA

For learning lessons... here are three things I noted: First, he probably should spend some more time on the ground placing pro to get familiar with his rack and get his eye better calibrated to crack v. cam/stopper sizes...  Second, give some thought about when, why, and how to extend placements (looks like he was unthinking about this). Third, give some additional thought on how far he would fall and what he might hit at any one point along the route. I'm not sure if he was fully aware of how much slack in the system, rope stretch, etc. would contribute. 

Hopefully, he had a competent belayer.

Questions: Would you have clipped that old pin? Would you have clipped one of those bolts (just in case)?

 P.S. That Billy dude needs an Enormocast interview.

EDIT: Went back and watched it all the way through. He might want to think about the implications of placing pro in suspect/fractured rock. He sure wanted to cram those big cams in there! One good thing: He did seem to be pretty aware of where the rope was running relative to his legs... and the not-often-used-but-safe clove hitch/locker master point at the anchor was something I didn't expect from him (I'd probably do something different, though, if multiple folks were going to cycle through on TR).

Biggest cringe so far is extending alpines on a route that goes straight up. Literally using Friends with built in extendable slings...they would be perfect for these placements. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

Here's one from YouTube, about 20 minutes long. Have at it...

https://youtu.be/xI0OUaNGAYA

For learning lessons... here are three things I noted: First, he probably should spend some more time on the ground placing pro to get familiar with his rack and get his eye better calibrated to crack v. cam/stopper sizes...  Second, give some thought about when, why, and how to extend placements (looks like he was unthinking about this). Third, give some additional thought on how far he would fall and what he might hit at any one point along the route. I'm not sure if he was fully aware of how much slack in the system, rope stretch, etc. would contribute. 

Hopefully, he had a competent belayer.

Questions: Would you have clipped that old pin? Would you have clipped one of those bolts (just in case)?

 P.S. That Billy dude needs an Enormocast interview.

EDIT: Went back and watched it all the way through. He might want to think about the implications of placing pro in suspect/fractured rock. He sure wanted to cram those big cams in there! One good thing: He did seem to be pretty aware of where the rope was running relative to his legs... and the not-often-used-but-safe clove hitch/locker master point at the anchor was something I didn't expect from him (I'd probably do something different, though, if multiple folks were going to cycle through on TR).

that #4 placement though

Daniel Joderwrote:

Here's one from YouTube, about 20 minutes long. Have at it...

https://youtu.be/xI0OUaNGAYA

For learning lessons... here are three things I noted: First, he probably should spend some more time on the ground placing pro to get familiar with his rack and get his eye better calibrated to crack v. cam/stopper sizes...  

Different schools of thoughts on that for sure... but personally, on a continuous crack, with good pro most of the way, at a level at which I'm confident of all/nearly all the moves is fine. It didn't seem to me he was pumping out desperately looking to get gear in. I did similarly on early trad leads for sure. He's not going to be onsighting hard trad, but he seemed decently efficient, I think he's way past the point were ground exercise for placement are all that worthwhile. At some point, I feel like actually doing is the best way to improve.

Second, give some thought about when, why, and how to extend placements (looks like he was unthinking about this). 

Fully agree. Though in this case, it's mostly that it's inefficient, not really dangerous. And for newer leader, I personally think it's better to err on the side of "extend too much" than too little, lest the shittier placement start walking out & pulling out....

Third, give some additional thought on how far he would fall and what he might hit at any one point along the route. I'm not sure if he was fully aware of how much slack in the system, rope stretch, etc. would contribute. 

Yeah, hard to judge with the go pro. My personal evaluation was that he was mostly OK. The only more runnout part was about the nut, passed the old pin & the first bolt, before the #2 & the #4... I personally would have been totally fine running it out in that section, as the section seemed easier. I would have done the same. I would likely have done the same even in past years where this would have been closer to my trad limit.

He sure wanted to not have the #4 still on his harness once he got the anchor, though, I'm a little skeptical of bot those placements (#2 & #4), because of the rock, seems flaky, but then we can't really tell how good the rock was or wasn't just from the vid, at least I can't with certainty. But it seems to me that in both cases, smaller placements in the cracks around may have been available, and I feel like the attraction of pluggin bigger gear (on possibly bad rock) was too strong. I personally would take smaller gear on better rocks most the time, if I have the choice. But then maybe the rock was fine.

Questions: Would you have clipped that old pin? Would you have clipped one of those bolts (just in case)?

I wouldn't have, because the climbing seemed easier and other pieces were available reasonably close. Definitely not the pin - I think the placement just below is much more confidence inspiring that this old pin. The bolt.... I guess it depends. If it were a lead at my limit, and/or if I'm still not that confident in my gear because I haven't been leading on gear that much, or if the gear is shit, I mean sure it's there. But not in this case for me, if I'm leading on gear I'll try to, well, lead on gear as much I can.

Great comments, Franck. Thanks for going into detail. It’s all about learning... especially for any trad newbies reading through this. 

Yeah, that #4. Pretty sketchy, especially when he was already out a way and had a bumpy ride to a small ledge and then around a corner below him. When he first gets that out it looks like there are some decent stopper placements and he had some stoppers left. But he went further and got the #4 placement he actually used which was not good - no depth and an awkward angle that would result in it getting rotated if he fell, potentially setting it up to rip, or at the least, tweaking it really hard..

He loses some of the value of his protection by extending the slings so far. It looks like he got habituated to that at some point and stopped thinking about it.

If I had slings enough I would have clipped the old pin, but only with a placement nearby like he had. It would have advanced the protection point just that much and maybe reduced wear and tear on his pro if he fell on it. I'm certainly open to feedback on that, however.

The bolts I'm not so sure about. They looked fine but it was a little hard to tell if they would have introduced rope drag, being around the corner. However when he bypassed that one bolt to get that sketchy #4, that was a mistake. Better to downclimb and use the bolt than go with that placement.

The clove hitch on the locker was good stuff. I haven't seen one tied that way before and it made me jump up and learn it. Not sure I would have set the anchor that way, but it is not a bad set up.

Far cry better than Billy!

That Space Shot video isn’t that bad. Needs editing more than anything. The ten minutes of wasted time at the beginning, getting on belay, getting moving, waiting while she flakes the rope, etc, is pretty boring and they clearly weren’t being efficient, but once he got moving it was ok. Nothing special.

The worst part was clipping that pin wrong and levering the carabiner. He put it on wrong, took it off and I hoped he wouldn’t put it on wrong again, but he did.

Also he usually clipped his aiders first then his rope. Should do the opposite so he had pro immediately, and then clip the aiders. Then he could more easily clean his aiders.

To his credit he did move smoothly off aid to free climbing, which is often a moment of hesitation.

Didn't think the Aid was terrible, the video was.. 

F Loydwrote:

Didn't think the Aid was terrible, the video was.. 

he could have done half as many moves and climbed 4x as fast if he got high in his aiders

A V wrote:

The video is awful, but that rock looks spectacular. I gotta visit you in NC man 

Come get you some of this southern stone, boy!

This thread isn't about poorly edited vids, it's a showcase of poor climbing/incompetent trad leads.  Nothing wrong with the above vid that I saw.  Sadly there haven't been any monumentally entertaining ones for a bit. 

zosowrote:

This thread isn't about poorly edited vids, it's a showcase of poor climbing/incompetent trad leads.  Nothing wrong with the above vid that I saw.  Sadly there haven't been any monumentally entertaining ones for a bit. 

If you don't see ANYTHING wrong in the video I posted...well, I don't know what to tell you.  It certainly ain't the worst I've seen, but far from unproblematic. 

zosowrote:

This thread isn't about poorly edited vids, it's a showcase of poor climbing/incompetent trad leads.  Nothing wrong with the above vid that I saw.  Sadly there haven't been any monumentally entertaining ones for a bit. 

I can't believe you've disrespected Billy like this