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New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14
rgoldwrote: Same for City of Rocks where I'd estimate 30% minimum. Similar at El Potrero Chico where I'd guess it's at least 35-40%. And at Red Rock, at least 25%. |
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Based on participation in my climbing school, in the last few months participation was over 50% female students. |
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OMG these winds! My partner Skip and I braved the very high winds yesterday (steady at 20-30 all day with gusts up to 50 MPH) to get in another day at Texas Canyon. Pulling the rope after getting down and watching it blow 50 feet sideways! Lots of fun, but I'm feeling a bit battered today. A feeling like being a little sea sick, from resisting being moved by the wind all day. Our summer weather appears to be leaving and it's turning colder and, hopefully, rainier. |
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A little snow at Joshua Tree today! |
rgoldwrote: My wife and I estimate in the 30-40% range. Then again, if Lori is making the claim that trad climbing is too scary for many girls, one must admit that you don't get much closer to a gym's ease in a trad venue than climbing at the Gunks. GO |
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Happy birthday H! In regards to climbers and gender I'm much more interested in climbers that are FUN and INTERESTING than their gender. I want to chat when I climb and I also want psych. Some climbers are boring as bat shit which makes me feel like I'm ciimbing with a cardboard cutout... |
GabeOwrote: Over the years, I've continually heard comments about what women can't or will never do. Back in the 70's in Yosemite, slab climbing was "girl climbing" and "women will never do hard offwidth." Now one of the best offwidth climbers in the world is a woman. I head that women would never climb a big wall without a male partner. That one barely lasted a year or two. It may be that trad climbing is indeed too scary for some of the people introduced to and raised on the safer genres that now exist. But I don't see women as over-represented in that demographic. |
Bob Gaineswrote: A lot of that just has to do with your irresistible masculine magnetism, though, Bob. |
Andrew Ricewrote: You nailed that one, Senor. It's definitely Bob's charm. But also, I would expect a guiding/training school to have an even mix male and female. Good grief. This question isn't that important. I wasn't implying anything...certainly not that women are scared or frightened. Just that they aren't here in large numbers wherever I climb, and I have wondered why. The 10% guestimate was from a Park volunteer. I'll have to go back to the head count I started some months ago to see if I can get a more solid estimate. It was suggested to me that I would find a much larger mix of women at sport climbing areas. I will have to visit some to understand why that would be. In fairness, I may have tunnel vision when I'm out climbing. I don't see anyone, usually. It would make one think that outdoor climbing is a fairly exclusive activity. For every busload of people I see unloading in Real Hidden Valley, I see one or two actual climbers walking by. I don't think Intersection Parking Lot is a fair assessment, since that's a large meeting ground... but come to think of it, the women are sparse there, too. Not to throw fuel on the fire, but both my neighbors (lifelong JTree residents) have proclaimed that the reason they are not married is because JTree doesn't have many women. That can't be true. But maybe the mix of male/female climbers does have something to do with 'place'. All the other groups I've become involved with, gardening, church, arts, etc have PLENTY of women. No shortages of bodies. ---------------------------- Tony's second surgery is a go and we'll be heading back to Sacramento this weekend for some number of weeks. It will be strange not going 'home' to my house there. And I don't want to leave here. Not looking forward to the moaning. (his, not mine. ) But for how wonderful and giving that man has been to me, I can do this for him. When I moved here I promised myself I would find a way to make staying in Sacramento easy so I could visit and see my family and business. So far, I haven't figured it out. AirB&Bs are extremely expensive, and not plentiful. That leaves hotels. (are they safe with COVID? thinking about circulating shared air... ). What about a big van. RV. Camper? Time share? |
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When I look at how messed up my fingernails get after a day of climbing, I sometimes wonder if, for some women, there is a choice that is made between the activity and their expensive manicures. |
cassondra lwrote: You have fingernails, cassondra? Really great point! Climbing changes a lot. When I was trying on dresses for my first date with Tony, friends were finding pretty sandals for me. "You're kidding, right?" was all I could say. Feet and hands are not ladylike when you climb. You may have hit on a topic near and dear to my heart. When I first confided to my best friend my desire to move to the desert and climb she said "Lori, you would hate that! You like comfort and luxury too much!" And I realized at that moment that someone who had known me since I was 16 didn't know me at all. We (I) make choices that may not always align with our deepest self--but we make them to save us and perhaps allow us to take care of those we love. Maybe Helen, and others, can relate. With 4 kids to raise, I found a business I could start and hopefully earn a living, which required me to have a car for travel and also that would hold kids, dog and business supplies... and a house big enough to hold the family, in a neighborhood that didn't require bars on the windows, and a wardrobe that fit my job. And as my kids got older and two of them had such big problems, I had to make more money for all the extra things they required. From the outside, it all looked very yuppie-like. In fact, my life looked exactly like all my neighbors with the manicured lawns and some kind of upscale car. We did not relate in any way except appearances. I was just waiting for a safe getaway. My nails, toes, clothes, home pricing, don't mean shit to me, except as they allow me to live in the outdoors, climb, and finally be who I am. But this 'is' rugged here... maybe not everyone's cup of tea. I come home with banged knees, peeling blisters, frequently exhausted... and I love it. |
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I want to pass along a recommendation that's appropriate to this thread. It's a sidebar for sure. Right now, you can buy a pass to stream the Banff World Tour film festival. For all of us who enjoy the outdoors, it's a pleasure to watch. Specifically, there's a short film called "Free As Can Be" about a climbing partnership between an old climber (Mark Hudon) and a young one. Their project is a free ascent of Freerider on El Cap, the same route that Alex Honnold soloed. Mark is 63. It's a magnificent film, as it is more about the relationship between the climbers than just the climbing. I wouldn't be surprised if some in the California contingent are connected to Mark. Here are some links: |
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Happy Birthday To You- OLH!!!!! My Brother paid me a visit one time when I was residing in camp 4 in 77. After a few days hiking, swimming, partying etc his comment to me was, “It’s nice, but it feels like Sparta- No women around at all...” I know a woman who can still lead 11 cracks- makes Insomnia crack look 5.8! She was kicked out of girls gymnastics when she was 13 and sent to Men’s gymnastics. She started climbing at 16 and today she is the one who will finish the climb we can’t do and retrieve the gear and set the top rope. Today I still can’t believe her parents would let her go to JT for weeks with Me and my 3 friends (pictured up thread). I can still see the scene- Mom and Dad waving by by from the porch, “have a fun time”. Her answer to these questions is “Yes” To this day I love strong women who know their mind, don’t take shit from anybody, are supremely confident and determined. 99% of the women who I meet who are swinging leads possess these traits. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have married one of these women. 38 years this February. To end: Lori way back you said you spent the 70’s sitting on the beach watching your BF surf. That’s the same thing as sitting on the ground and watching your Bf climb- I found that extremely sad. I guess it went with the times tho. I’m curious as to what the answers will be. Times have changed- for the better! |
Lori Milaswrote: Tunnel vision? You mean you're too busy checking out all the guys to notice the girls... |
Carl Schneiderwrote: I thought Tunnel Vision was a route at Red Rock. |
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Interesting day today. I was feeling a bit depressed. I'd climbed at the bouldering gym last night and was able to repeat 2 of the 3 V4 to V6 problems I'd recently done (didn't even try the 3rd), but left after only an hour feeling totally unpsyched. So I'd decided to go again today but right up to the point of leaving work and sitting on my motorbike I was thinking "do I ride home or climb?" I went climbing and ended up having a nice climb. I saw a lady trying a bouldering problem but using a volume that wasn't 'in'. I wanted to tell her the volume wasn't in but instead just DID the climb thinking 'if she wants to see how it's done she can look otherwise she can look away'. So then someone that was working there was talking about the climb saying how she really liked it and how it taught one how to place one's feet. I was agreeing when the lady that I'd seen trying it chimed in and said to me 'yes, and you demonstrated it so ELEGANTLY!' |
Guy Keeseewrote: I'll bet there are as many answers as there are people. I wonder if there is any formula for who climbs and why? In my younger years I was not athletic, had no interest in anything physically challenging, and definitely not a tomboy. I'll bet other women here were tomboys and were really solid athletes. Looking back, what stands out was my love of nature. During school breaks it was always a decision whether to head for Big Sur or Parker Dam/Havasu to restore my soul and energy. We skiied, but not fanatically. We hiked. But if I could sit in a tree with my friends and listen to Dylan... we were all good. If we could sit on the hills behind the Rose Bowl at night and watch a concert, we were happy. So, hmmm. I think you have a point, Guy. This particular place is pretty hot/cold, rugged, hard, challenging just to be here. There are bugs, snakes, scorpions. I don't know the rock at other places, but I can tear up my fingers fast here. I love the harshness of this place. Maybe other more polished places attract the ladies more.(?) We were climbing over at the Sphinx last week, on a route that neither of us had any beta on. Towards the top there was a single flake to undercling... or peel off the wall. I put my right hand under that flake and felt something large, inside a very thick web. I hung on the rope for a moment to see if I could identify who was under that flake, but I couldn't. I spent the next few minutes trying to negotiate with that creature for a spot for a forefinger for me, without getting bit. We managed to come to an agreement... but I wondered how many of my friends would be heading home after that. Maybe if you're really into the sport of climbing, the grades, the styles... you go where it's pretty set up to get on it without muss and fuss. When I decided to do 'one year of climbing' here... in part I just wanted to blend in with the desert and trot along with the coyotes, learn north from south (better but still not perfect). Watch the seasons change. Learn to identify the herbs and vegetation. See when the chuckwallas come out. And climb--pretty much in that order. Ladies? |
Victor Kwrote: Hey Victor, thanks for these links! We had time last night, and I was happy to watch the World Tour program. Good call! Soooo.... now that we've seen the Teflon Corner up close and personal in many different movies... has anyone here ever climbed it? Bob? And if so, how was it? |
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"When I decided to do 'one year of climbing' here... in part I just wanted to blend in with the desert and trot along with the coyotes, learn north from south (better but still not perfect). Watch the seasons change. Learn to identify the herbs and vegetation. See when the chuckwallas come out. And climb--pretty much in that order." If more people did what you are doing the world would be a better place! |
 A wee bit bigger than a coyote. Much heavier, too! :-) I was never a tomboy, exacty, but I was never much good at "girl" stuff like makeup or nails. What I was, and still am, is hands on. Back in high school, that was art classes. Pottery, photo chemicals, screen printing...it all trashes hands. As soon as we moved here (1980 in the house I'm in right now) the gardening started in earnest. That's all hands on. I rarely even wear gloves. So? Yes, sorta. I was predisposed to wrinkles, fingernails I honestly just keep ripped off, and not averse to dirt. As to that other life? My life today is hugely different, and I'm endlessly grateful for that. Even before it got ugly, it was always constrained, and secondary to others. That was just how it was. I think that still exists for women, it is way, way better, but there's still some deferring to others. Being nice. I think about 30% is pretty close. That's about what the COR trip in September was. But? About half the women were a climbing partnership with husbands. More men were married to nonclimbers. I do think women get introduced (or sucked in) to climbing by boy friends, pretty often, and are still less likely than guys to just go out and give it a shot. Indoors? That's getting closer to 50/50, especially when you look at the younger crowd. Universities, climbing teams, kids clubs. There's still not a lot of female routesetters though, and almost no developers. FAs, sure, but not the ugly grunge work, lol! Thanks for the birthday wishes, all! I'm hoping to do more....anything....this year. Best, Helen |
