New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14

csproul wrote:

Was climbing at Sugarloaf a couple years ago (close to your old home town Lori). Came across three women climbing this 10b offwidth topless. I had just done it earlier that day and scraped the shit out my back and shoulders while wearing a shirt. They seemed to thrash less, so hopefully they come out better than I. I didn’t stick around to find out...

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/107031040/self-abuse

Maybe Sugarloaf isn’t the best place to try out topless climbing but it sure is a place I’ve long wanted to climb. I’m so curious to know how it is... what the routes are like?  What was your experience there?  From the road it’s just gorgeous.

Carl Schneider wrote:

In response to your question "when you were 14, 

Then came climbing. 

Now I can actually ask people to go climb with me and not feel afraid if they say no. I think you're right. Thus kid might benefit from the inclusivity that comes from climbing. 

BTW I'm COMPLETELY different now to how I was back then. Now you can shut me up and I talk to anyone. It's odd how we change... 

Thanks for your story Carl. I wonder how many of us are or were extremely shy.  

I wish I had discovered climbing while my kids were young. If they wanted to be rebellious and independent and strong and connected they could have done it here.

After the death of my youngest son I truly knew I was done with that utterly hopeless battle being waged against heroin and meth. I thought if that unthinkable thing happened I would open a rehab or advocate for addiction services in a big way. But that’s for other mothers to do, not me.

But I can take a kid climbing. I can help him get stoked before he succumbs some other way.  We can laugh, swap playlists, I can cheer and high-five and take pictures. I can turn them on to something life affirming. That’s what i got. 

While out hiking this morning I had to stop and look at Cave Corridor again, and then get right up on those rocks. I wonder why this hasn’t been more developed? There are some beautiful, interesting lines.   and one bolted route in particular I’d really like to climb. 

Greg Opland wrote:

I would call #1/#2 Camalot hands to be the industry standard for a normal male, not large.

There's an industry standard for hands cracks? I didn't know that. To clarify: When I wear gloves of any kind, they are size L or XL. 

Lori

The first time I went to climb a real crack climb was in Indian Creek. My daughter and I were on a week long vacation after she graduated high school back in 1998. I did not bring any climbing gear except for shoes and  harness. I met my friends Nancy and Greg out in Moab. They had their climbing gear. You must know that we had usually climbed back on the east coast. We do not have splinter crack out here. We had very limited crack climbing experience. 

We read up on how to tape our hands, how to jam and we figured that was all we needed. I had one day at the creek with my friends the rest of the time my daughter and I were hiking in some of the National Parks in Utah. We decided to try the classic Super Crack of the Desert. Once on the climb we realized that we did not have enough gear to finish the climb. I climbed as high as I could with what gear that we had. It was not enough. I lowered down to the ledge. So we had to down climb and pull our gear. Greg said that he would do the down climb to the ledge, then i would lower him to the base and then I would do the short face down climb and pull the one piece that I had previously placed. 

We decided that we would try the following year. With our combined gear, we did finish Super Crack.

1998 Super Crack (my daughter took the picture back then)

1999 Jean on Super Crack

Jean on Incredible Hand Crack

I have larger hands than Jean. What I hand jam, Jean has to do fist jams. 

This is one of my favorite climbs at the creek. Generic Crack

Starting the climb. Notice some of the old style friends.

Jean is belaying me.

Perfect hand jamming

As previous mentioned before, you need to practice. We did not have the climbs out here on the east to practice climbing a pure 100 foot crack. You have a lot of short crack to start to practice to learn the techniques of crack climbing. Jean and I made mistakes doing climbing in the creek and also at the Voo. It did not stop us from trying. Jean leading hand cracks were my struggling to climb the same climb as finger cracks. 

Have fun.

John

Oldtradguy wrote:

The first time I went to climb a real crack climb was in Indian Creek. My daughter and I were on a week long vacation after she graduated high school back in 1998. I did not bring any climbing gear except for shoes and  harness. I met my friends Nancy and Greg out in Moab. They had their climbing gear. You must know that we had usually climbed back on the east coast. We do not have splinter crack out here. We had very limited crack climbing experience. 

It's a fairly long way to Moab from where I have lived for the last 40 years, so Indian Creek was always on my "life list" of places to climb, because I do love to crack climb, but until 6 years ago I had never made it out there.  Then Jim Donini organized a group of Supertopo people to go there, so I saw my chance and took it.  In preparation, I had my old rigid stem friends re-slung so I would have a triple rack of friends to contribute, as my friends had told me that everybody pools their gear so you have enough of the same size cam to place enough gear at the recommended distance apart.  I carried that triple rack around for 3 days and never placed a piece because people like Jim, Jaybro, and Vitaliy kept putting ropes up at a pace faster than I could climb. (Jim essentially solos most of these routes, I think he's done them a thousand times.)  I sure enjoyed the topropes!  Supercrack was wide (cupped) hands for me the whole way - a terribly exhausting size.  I made it to the wide pod near the top before taking, in exhaustion.  Honestly the 5.11 finger crack I did felt less strenuous.  

Beautiful crack climbing there for sure...One of these days I'll get back there again.

Oldtradguy wrote:

Lori

The first time I went to climb a real crack climb was in Indian Creek. My daughter and I were on a week long vacation after she graduated high school back in 1998. I did not bring any climbing gear except for shoes and  harness. I met my friends Nancy and Greg out in Moab. They had their climbing gear. You must know that we had usually climbed back on the east coast. We do not have splinter crack out here. We had very limited crack climbing experience. 

We read up on how to tape our hands, how to jam and we figured that was all we needed. I had one day at the creek with my friends the rest of the time my daughter and I were hiking in some of the National Parks in Utah. We decided to try the classic Super Crack of the Desert. Once on the climb we realized that we did not have enough gear to finish the climb. I climbed as high as I could with what gear that we had. It was not enough. I lowered down to the ledge. So we had to down climb and pull our gear. Greg said that he would do the down climb to the ledge, then i would lower him to the base and then I would do the short face down climb and pull the one piece that I had previously placed. 

We decided that we would try the following year. With our combined gear, we did finish Super Crack.

1998 Super Crack (my daughter took the picture back then)

1999 Jean on Super Crack

Jean on Incredible Hand Crack

As previous mentioned before, you need to practice. We did not have the climbs out here on the east to practice climbing a pure 100 foot crack. You have a lot of short crack to start to practice to learn the techniques of crack climbing. Jean and I made mistakes doing climbing in the creek and also at the Voo. It did not stop us from trying. Jean leading hand cracks were my struggling to climb the same climb as finger cracks. 

Have fun.

John

John, what beautiful pictures!  Thank you so much for posting these... they are eye-candy! 

I don't know how to account for your and Jean's incredible ability in climbing--and such a great love story.  She's tiny.  You were a gymnast.  That's all I can come up with.  I especially like the picture of Jean on Incredible Hand Crack. Your humility about the whole thing is also really special... you always give Jean all the credit.  

I am having to continually recalibrate my own assessment of where I am on the climbing continuum, my own abilities and potential... and be ok with that.  I feel like we (all of us) are experimenting on ourselves... this is a fairly uncommon venture at this age.  My doctor is SO proud, but really shrugs his shoulders.  He doesn't have any idea what is possible for someone our age.  Cosmic has been climbing for decades and, as I recall, has 33 inches of surgical scars to contend with and a recent back surgery. Randy and Russ are in another orbit entirely.    Guy and many others here have been climbing so long they don't bother to post pictures or high-five themselves... it's enough to know they're good and they can back it up. Helen has knees.  But Guy just had a surgery, too.  Phylp has obviously been climbing for decades... and when she mentions in passing a 5.11 finger crack... geez.  That says it all.

I guess it's a deal between ones self, and ones self.  (me, and me).  There are no other measurements. I've been feeling more and more tired over the last few months. Suddenly I can barely keep up.  Double Cross took it out of me again. Talked it over with Bob a bit and he suggested I do some power hiking up Ryan's Mountain, with a back pack, 3-4 days a week.  So, that sounds about right... strength is one thing, fitness and endurance is another.  Took off up that trail this morning, huffing and puffing, panting the first 1/4 mile... but then suddenly got the wind in my sails and really found my energy.  In fact, the rest of the hike was great.  

Those cracks are tasty, John.  Likely I will not ever climb them.  Whatever any of us do going forward, it has to be 'good enough'.  

phylp phylp wrote:

It's a fairly long way to Moab from where I have lived for the last 40 years, so Indian Creek was always on my "life list" of places to climb, because I do love to crack climb, but until 6 years ago I had never made it out there.  Then Jim Donini organized a group of Supertopo people to go there, so I saw my chance and took it.  In preparation, I had my old rigid stem friends re-slung so I would have a triple rack of friends to contribute, as my friends had told me that everybody pools their gear so you have enough of the same size cam to place enough gear at the recommended distance apart.  I carried that triple rack around for 3 days and never placed a piece because people like Jim, Jaybro, and Vitaliy kept putting ropes up at a pace faster than I could climb. (Jim essentially solos most of these routes, I think he's done them a thousand times.)  I sure enjoyed the topropes!  Supercrack was wide (cupped) hands for me the whole way - a terribly exhausting size.  I made it to the wide pod near the top before taking, in exhaustion.  Honestly the 5.11 finger crack I did felt less strenuous.  

Beautiful crack climbing there for sure...One of these days I'll get back there again.

Phylp

Jean has small strong hands. On Super Crack she did some hand jams and also some lay backing. The lay backing was way harder to do than the jams.

Jean cruised Chocolate Corner while I struggled to get my fingers into the crack. Jean also led the first pitch of the Naked and Dead and then TR the Naked and Dead Variation. I fell multiple times on the Variation and finally gave up. I could not hold onto what she was holding onto.

Now both of us have arthritic fingers. We can not hold onto what we used to do. It has not stopped us from trying yet. Our leading skills are not what they used to be. At 67, we do not want to take big leader falls anymore. Once we get both shots of the vaccine, we will head out west to do some climbing. We have a good friend, Bud, who lives in Moab. Maybe we can get back to try some of the easier cracks in the creek. I seem to recall that there are about a hand full of climbs that are below 5.10 at Indian Creek Buttress. I also remember that I almost chucked up my cookies at the top of 3 AM Crack.

For those of you that have never climbed Super Crack of the Desert, see the link below of one of the original FA going back to redo it. It was originally done with hexes and stoppers.

Enjoy

https://gripped.com/profiles/watch-film-on-first-ascent-of-splitter-supercrack-5-10/

John

Hello allIt’s been hard to post updates lately but I’m feeling better.  Please check out my latest post

    

https://www.fightingcanceragain.com/post/uh-oh

Oldtradguy wrote:

Jean cruised Chocolate Corner while I struggled to get my fingers into the crack. 

That is the first crack all my gal pals told me to get on, LOL.  Not surprising that it was the wrong size for you.  I didn't get over to it.

Lori, the point that everyone (including me) is making is that the grade that any given crack will "feel" to any given person is very dependent on their hand and fist and finger size.  Have fun out there.

It’s the chalk!  Today I learned that I have been using girlie gym chalk in my chalk bag which no self-respecting Joshua Tree climber would use. My chalk doesn’t stick. So, I tried some of the other chalk and lo and behold it really added friction to the tiny crimps on my route. This opens up a whole new world!   Quite honestly I didn’t know why I was using the gym chalk—never seemed to make a difference. Now it makes sense.

Aside from chalk and crimps today I asked Bob to describe the routes for Run For Your Life and Billabong.  I want to focus on those two goals.  I’ve agreed to let go of Tumbling Rainbow and EBGBs this season.  TR is a 5.9 grade, but hand jams.  As long as Double Cross is hard, Tumbling Rainbow would be that much harder. EBGBs has a problem mantle.  I can revisit those goals after summer.

So it sounds like building endurance, practice on more vertical slabs with thin edges is key, and developing good calf and feet strength. And bringing along the good chalk.   

Ok. It’s good to set some goals and understand the path to get there. How about you all? What’s on your radar this year? What will you be climbing? 

John. if you are in the area check out the Bridger Jacks.  

frank minunni wrote:Hello allIt’s been hard to post updates lately but I’m feeling better.  Please check out my latest post

    

https://www.fightingcanceragain.com/post/uh-oh

I hope you feel the strength, love and prayers of this community as you work to heal.  Thank you for sharing and writing your beautiful posts as you go along. 

frank minunni wrote:Hello allIt’s been hard to post updates lately but I’m feeling better.  Please check out my latest post

    

https://www.fightingcanceragain.com/post/uh-oh

I followed the link, Frank and read your post. It certainly touched me. I truly hope you can continue your fight.

Thinking of you... 

Lori.... Ryan Mt. is a great hike. Try at sunrise- you might see some sheep.

Re Crack climbing. So what cracks at JT have you done? Like I mentioned before, I think you build on success. Have you climbed Bousinnor (SP?) in HVCG, it’s 5.8. Have you climbed Bacon Flake 5.8.... Double DogLeg... 5.7... Invisibility Lessons 5.9 ..... Bird of Fire ....Classic Corner... False Classic Corner... Right Mels ...  There are so many I can’t even remember them without a GB in my hand. All of these are more fun than Double Cross.
But it’s good to see your getting out. How are your hands? I’ve climbed 6 out of the last 10 days and the fingers have splits in them- big splits. Time to let em rest.

Photos.... The first one is of young Giovanni ... with no school he made his way to Stoney and fell in with the wrong crowd.

Have fun 

Guy. super glue those cracks in your fingers. ..   Got out yesterday. work was less than awesome today ;) 

Super cold dry brittle ice in  the morning. 

Sun came out in the afternoon and it got hero.

Nick, Guy... great pictures, thank you!  Keep the pictures and stories coming!  Ice climbing... I still don’t get it. It’s beautiful, just looks strenuous and scary as hell.

Was out climbing at a new place yesterday and it feels like I’m full throttle right now, building that base we talked about.  Every single rock has something new to offer, some new tool on the tool belt.  It’s getting a little easier to read each situation and know how to handle it. Technical climbing, vertical face climbing, cracks, slab... I’m still trying to embrace how a tiny edge or toe will support me on a steep wall. It’s taking a long time to trust it. It really does come down to hours on the rock, I guess.  

Tony is scheduled for a second surgery in Sacramento in a couple of weeks, similar to the first.  I’ll be there and take care of him, of course... but I thought last time  I heard him swear “Never again!”. What happened to that?    He said he was done with elective surgeries forever.  What happened is he doesn’t remember the pain and terror because he was stoned on all those meds.  But I do remember.  But also, selfishly, I’m finally on such a roll here climbing and power hiking I’m not sure how I’ll keep the progress and fitness during the downtime.  

So off to the bouldering club again tonight. Clearly I'm getting my 'bouldering power' back after a bit of time off, then a month indoor top roping, then easy trad. 

I was able to get two 'Green' graded problems tonight (V4 to V6). It'd taken me a few weeks to get the first Green in a while, which I got the other week, and now two more. 

One was a problem I set myself which I couldn't actually do. 

It's good to be getting a bit stronger. 

I know the pictures don't mean much, but one problem is the one with large black holds (starts RH side of picture low, traverses L then goes R at the top). The other is purple holds (hard to see on the purple wall) which goes up the arete on small crimps with a big move from an undercling at the top. That was the one I set (second one ever). 

Lori Milas wrote:

Ok. It’s good to set some goals and understand the path to get there. How about you all? What’s on your radar this year? What will you be climbing? 

Most years at this time I'd be in Mexico enjoying the warm temperatures and climbing at EPC or Bernal.  Kind of depressing, stuck in the snow.  But yesterday was a perfect day, blue skies, soft snow, endless turns.  However after 60+ years of skiing, I'd rather be on the rock!