Is Ondra aiding Perfecto Mundo?

Can I point the fan upwards? What if I get a really powerful fan? I have an idea...

Sport climbing started out as a contrivance, no? It’s in character with the pursuit, I’d say, and I don’t mean that as an aspersion. 

Bill Schickwrote:

His videos seem to be full of subbies and fluffers catering to his sometimes childish whims.  My favorite is they built him a climbing wall near Silence so he wouldn't have to hike to the rocks every day - no gym in town, so rough.  It's also an interesting sign of how much money a few of these top guys must have now in sponsorships.  I think being called #1 in the world for a few years now has gone to his head.  Makes me want to see the underdog rise up and crush him.  Meanwhile, Megos rolls in a sedan and isn't afraid to sleep in the open on the side of the road - more my type.  The Olympic showdown will be interesting.

Do you also complain that your favorite bands are sellouts once they make it big and that they were better "back in the day"?

Schuyler Baerwrote:

What about the help of the cobbler who made his shoes, chalk, his coach, etc? Is the difference here that somebody is up there holding the fan? In that case what if Adam fixed a fan somewhere on the route himself, lowered, then sent? 

Well what if he decided that chalking up from his chalk bag is too difficult and he could make it easier (and also save a little wight) if he installed chalk-holding dishes at strategic points along the climb?  Seems like the "rule" is you get the bolts and the draws pre-hung, nothing else (although even that may have changed over time, people used to talk about pinkpointing v. redpointing, although I don't know if that was ever really a thing.).  I guess it's OK to climb part of a route as a boulder problem and then have someone hand you a rope, but I'm not sure about that.

There are no bad conditions, only weakness. 

0% Aid, 100% needs an asterisk if/when he does send. 

It's giving him an advantage few if any others could have to climb the route. Anyone can buy Solutions, anyone can spend X days projecting, anyone can obsess over weather forecasting, etc. This is an advantage basically no one else could utilize and it diminishes the legitimacy of the send. It may be common practice in bouldering, but that doesn't require an entourage of paid helpers to make it possible. 

A V wrote:

Cool saying, but also a weird flex on Megos’ part. He knows perfectly well that unclimbable condies totally exist.

Did you see Megos's other recent flex on kneepads and dabs in bouldering? Sometimes he can be cocky, but I appreciate that there's someone like him around to keep us all honest, especially as climbing in general just keeps drifting toward this weird insta-lifestyle sport that barely cares about sending.

This whole Perfecto Mundo thing with Ondra has been interesting; I've never seen the process of working a sport climb publicized this much without a send, and for anyone but Ondra it would be silly. But he's objectively the best all-around rock climber in the world, so its cool to see a climb that challenges him so much in difficulty and style. Megos is a beast on pockets, and at a level way beyond Ondra. 

Also, this video that compares the two climbers is pretty cool.

Tony B wrote:

0% Aid, 100% needs an asterisk if/when he does send.

By that logic every person who sends a route with a kneepad should put at asterisk on their send sheet as well.

Tony Baumwrote:

This is an advantage basically no one else could utilize and it diminishes the legitimacy of the send.

Not true, you just gotta find someone dumb enough/ willing to sit on a rope holding a fan while you send the gnar.

Tony Baumwrote:

0% Aid, 100% needs an asterisk if/when he does send. 

It's giving him an advantage few if any others could have to climb the route. Anyone can buy Solutions, anyone can spend X days projecting, anyone can obsess over weather forecasting, etc. This is an advantage basically no one else could utilize and it diminishes the legitimacy of the send. It may be common practice in bouldering, but that doesn't require an entourage of paid helpers to make it possible. 

It is also common practice on El Cap free climbs to pay porters or people to support.  I’ve definitely paid people to come help me and or belay.  It is fairly common.

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

It is also common practice on El Cap free climbs to pay porters or people to support.  I’ve definitely paid people to come help me and or belay.  It is fairly common.

Siege tactics on single pitch sport climb takes expression "conquistadors of the useless" to totally different level.

Does having sponsorships and making money, presumably, justify it? Probably, but I would not know. Still, I can pass the judgement through tubes of internet, while sitting on a couch when not flailing on gym 5.9s

Ask me again when he actually redpoints it.

amariuswrote:

Siege tactics on single pitch sport climb takes expression "conquistadors of the useless" to totally different level.

IMHO such shenanigans have already been done and even surpassed on boulders. I guess I ask myself - do I care? We see that Ondra can't climb a 9B+ literally on cue - shocking. Bad for making a video production, but that's life. To me, it looks like a whole group of people got to work a cool job and hang out in a rad area of the world. I hope they enjoy the process. 

You know, I've spent literally hours belaying friends while they work a project.

If one of them asked me to hang from a rope with a fan I'd probably consider doing it.

The way I see it, they had the crew, cameramen, etc, all ready to film, and the conditions were poor. The option was to go hone snd try another day, or dry the rock the best they could.

Having seen how Margalef can hold a cloud/fog for weeks at a time, and having used a T-shirt to dry key rock features of a climb before, when I was already there, and the conditions sucked, I guess I don’t see much of a problem with it.

And he didn’t send, anyway, so a moot point. Sort of like saying that he is aiding because he grabbed the draw while working the route, or stick clipped through the crux to figure it out...

I doubt that he would be using the fan every time. When the conditions are good, he wouldn’t need to.

Sure, these tactics are more complicated than a random everyday climber would employ. But the stakes are also higher than an everyday climber usually has to deal with. Most people would just not try to redpoint a hard project when the conditions are bad. For that matter, most climbers don’t put in even 1/10th of an effort that Ondra puts into his projects. So, he had a groupie, or a friend, or a paid crew member, willing to hold a fan for him... meh. 

I bet if they'd used a leaf blower he'd've sent.

Luca Keushguerianwrote:

By that logic every person who sends a route with a kneepad should put at asterisk on their send sheet as well.

Lol that's exactly my point, anyone can buy a kneepad, that's not an inaccessible advantage. Having an entourage with people altering conditions for you is a disproportionate advantage and changes the nature of the climb. 

Joffy Jenkins wrote:

Good to hear you don't have a full time job, however the majority of us don't have that luxury. In fact finding a mate to hold a fan would be much easier than spending as many days as that on one route.

Not my current reality but anyone living van life could conceivable do this. 

Its like a bunch of old women complaining about that hot young thing with the dress they can't wear anymore and trying to slut shame her.

The only person Ondra's climbing should matter to is Ondra.

The only climbing that should matter to you is your own.

Next up in the slander mill: "Should Climber X be dating him/her when he/she is obviously co-dependent/bad for him/her and it will never work even though I've never met them in my life but saw them on TV once".

/slander on

Adam will take almost any advantage he can get, it seems.  He talks about this stuff in various videos: the type of chalk, kneepads and kneebars, lightweight rope and harness, and now (apparently) having his fanboys dry the holds.  Which makes it funny/odd that he's particular about not stick clipping the first 1-2 bolts for many of his sends.  Even when it's standard practice on a route to take 1 or 2 bolts, he'll prefer to take 0, as long as it's not dangerous to do so.  So he's a purist in that one respect...

Tony Baumwrote:

Lol that's exactly my point, anyone can buy a kneepad, that's not an inaccessible advantage. Having an entourage with people altering conditions for you is a disproportionate advantage and changes the nature of the climb. 

I saw a guy once with a whole lot of people waiting to catch him if he fell off and one of them had a long stick to brush and chalk up the holds for him. Was that Adam Ondra?