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Denali gear critique
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Maybe a stupid question but wondering if something like the UltaMid 2 would be adequate as a tent on Denali, or would it strictly see use as a cook tent on lower mountain? (sorry if I am hijacking the thread but also interested in tent recommendations for Denali) |
Paddy The Baddywrote: Cook tent only, mostly because if the wind is ripping there will be spindrift everywhere. Also stability is an issue. |
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I would like to thank you all for the kind and most thoughtful and thorough responses. I've been dealing with a stupid injury caused by losing focus during a home improvement project but I'm on the mend now and will parse every single response and maybe come back with a few questions. But I cannot express how grateful I am. |
Allen Sandersonwrote: Agreed. I've used the Hyperlite Mountain Gear Pyramid 4 a few times on Denali as my Cook tent, and the MH Trango 4 or MSR Storm as the primary tent. The mid is easy to drop during the day while you are out or if abnormally high winds are expected. |
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Dan sounds like you are going to have a fun adventure. I spent a ton of time analyzing gear and preparing a few years ago. I typically run cold as well so warmth was a major concern. In the end what worked for me and my budget was to primarily to use things I already owned. To save weight I opted not to bring hard shell pants and jackets. I brought many lighter puffy jackets and layered them. Puffy pants over the soft shell and base layers seemed to be enough even for summit day. I found a 70L pack to be fine as you are primarily pulling a sled below 14. The biggest saver in which I'll probably get critiqued on was bringing two sleeping bags; a 0 degree inside a 20. Both super useful for me in Colorado and that system was incredibly warm on Denali. I only used the 0 on the lower mountain and then both higher up. I had the same sleeping pad system as you, I found the foam pad to be invaluable, for sitting on while in the cook tent or other down time. If you don't have a duffel you should look for one as well, you need something to put your gear in on your sled, as well as for the flight etc. Make sure you have a solid shovel, the difference between our super basic bca shovel and the ortovox kodiak was incredible. The most useful purchases that I originally thought we didn't need; sunshirt from patagonia, cook tent from bd, and the 40 below overboots. If you want anymore specifics about layering systems or other aspects of the climb, super happy to help. |
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Even if you get an inner for the pyramid I think you might get frustrated with practical issues. How often you have to shovel during a dump because the sides will collapse faster than a poled structure. How gentle you're realistically going to be shoveling the snow off your fragile DCF tent wall for the upteenth time at 2am (DCF is strong in terms of tear strength but abrasion and puncture resistance are poor). I actually think it'd be pretty bomber in the wind, the DCF doesn't stretch and HMG has lots of guyouts. And you'll most likely have snow walls. But overall I think it'd be a case of an ultralight backpacker outsmarting themselves. Bring a proven expedition tent. If you're going to bring a pyramid make sure to test it in heavy snow/wind somewhere a bit less committing first. |
Dan Gwrote: Are you sure that you want a down jacket (the Microlight) as your only midlayer layer between the R1 and the big parka? I haven't been to Denali, but I have been to 6000m and I was very happy to have a breathable insulating midlayer for moving in cold temperatures, where a down jacket might be clammy and less moisture resistant. Perhaps a second fleece, or any of the popular active insulation jackets (Ascendant, Alpha Flux, Nano Air, Proton LT, First Light, etc.)? |
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take a longer trip, so you actually succeed with all this specialized gear "Damn dude! Why you got such a monster of a backpack?!" "l used it on Denali" "You climbed Denali?!!" "No. It was too windy the week l gave my self to summit" - two pairs midweight wool longjohns - four pairs light running short shorts w/the innernet - heavy fleece sweatpants - alpine hardshell pants w 2/3 zip sides and some pockets for chapstick, sunscreen (every 2 hours), Pro Bar - lightweight full-zip puffy pants - a thick and a thin wool hoody base uppers - R1 hoody - Super light alpine hardshell - mega giant down jacket - valandre makes a down bag to go over the down bag you already own, silk liner, BD Winter bivy - 2 pairs tall wool ski socks/week (socks are so light, and a fresh sock is god) - three pairs Army surplus wool liner gloves for having on your hands every minute of everyday - night lotion for back of hands and face - 3oz Tea Tree oil for nightly foot rubs - every other day baths w wipes (your skin works better clean=regulated temp) - lavish luscious Care and Cleanliness upon your butthole. Pamper thy anus. - bring a dozen shake'warms - 2x 1.5L Hundersdorff w/one neoprene holder for hipbelt from 40Below w overboot ourchase - 8lbs Irish butter - BD Expedition shovel - a plastic handle of bourbon |
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I wanted to circle back to the pack for a moment. I do believe that it is the most important piece of gear for me for 2 simple reasons: I don't have pronounced hip bones (which makes me tighten the belt a lot) and my shoulders easily hurt over 40lbs no matter what I do. The only big pack I've had was a Kelty Redcloud 110 but after 2 hrs with 60lbs it was really starting to hurt my shoulders and dig into my hips. I can suck it up a few days in normal conditions but don't want to have to so on Denali. I've compiled a list of pretty much every pack over 70l on the market tracking their weight/volume/price and tried to research them all. |
Stileswrote: Thanks for this list. Climbing Denali is still on my list. Just need to decide on the year but with mountaineering, the sooner the better. |
Dan Gwrote: If you are doing the West Butt. you should not have more than 40 lbs in a pack except the day you move from 14K to 17K. And even then if you have done a carry/cache to 16k it will not be for more than a half a day. I do not think my pack was ever more than 40 lbs but we were on the Cassin. |
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Packs seem to be highly personal as to comfort. What works for one may be horrible for another. And trial and error isn't that easy unless you live some place where you can try out several different packs in your size with weight in a store setting. And with the additional issue of weight versus comfort it becomes even harder. On a typical Denali trip I guess I'd go for comfort first and weight second unless the difference is substantial. How light one can go is determined first by body size and second by budget and availability of the adequate and available gear. Clothing options are much better now than when I did it 30 years ago - I had to order my plastic double boots out of Europe (twice actually) for example. Take your time and get the best (and best fitting) gear you can find for the money you have. Try out every single piece beforehand - finding out something pinches etc a few days into a 3 week trip could be very costly and ruin your trip. |
Dan Gwrote: If you can't find exactly what you're looking for, you can always have Jon, the owner of Alpine Luddites, sew you a custom pack to spec. |
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Listen to Allen Sanderson about pack weight. You will never have that much in your pack except for the travel between 14k and 17k and that's just one day of travel. As a fellow skinny person with no hips who always tightens hipbelts all the way: I have found the Montbell Expedition 80L(3 Denali trips on it now) to be a good compromise between size and comfort. I think it is slightly bigger than the 75L packs and has a more comfortable hipbelt than most(Mountain Hardwear South Col and BMG are known to be uncomfortable for many but they are light). Though I will note that one of the best carrying packs for me has been my HMG Ice Pack 4400. Large and Lightweight but maybe uncomfortable: Mountain Hardwear BMG (ebay etc) Large and Heavy and probably comfortable: Gregory Denali Middle ground in all categories: Montbell Expedition 80L + lid(and minus waterproof liner as it is not needed). *Note that many climb denali with their normal backpacking pack. As long as you can strap an ice axe to it and it carries well you are GTG. |
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet are down booties. These were super nice to have for around camp. I didn't have a pair (walked around in wearing just my liners inside my floppy overboots), but my brother did and I was so envious I bought a pair when I got back for general winter camping. |
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Most importantly...do you have a good partner(s) who will be able to maintain the psych during long stints or bad weather? Will they be able to keep the vision, be away from their kids/dogs/wife and stay focused, give the summit several attempts, etc? Go with the right people. I’ve been on Denali three times, it’s the partnership that gets you to the top. Your gear is solid. Use soft shell pants, get full side zip light goretex for storm days, get a -25F bag, bring good food and a mega mid for a cook tent.
Good luck. Clint from Alaska. |
Clint Helanderwrote: GOLD Advice. |
Allen Sandersonwrote: As one cannot post fleabay links look for: Feathered Friends Peregrine EX -25 Expedition Down Sleeping Bag - Never Used Price is on the high side and especially the shipping. The retail price noted in the listing is for the long not the regular. Also if one joins the AAC they 10% off FF gear. Note: the bag is a regular length which if you are 6'0 will not be adequate in length especially if you stuff things in the bag. If I needed a bag I might offer them $600 shipped. Note: I do not know the person selling the bag or have any other interest it. |
Thaddeus F Baringerwrote: +1, if you are using overboots then you can put the booties inside the overboots to wear outside. That was what I wore almost every day doing camp chores, walking around to chat with people, etc. They don't have traction but the camp areas are flat and usually not icy at all. So much comfier than your "real" boots (I was using ski touring boots) and you can keep your liners dry inside the tent. I used the 40below synthetic booties and liked them a lot. Also the 40below neoprene water bottle covers, not sure if anyone has mentioned those yet. Turns your existing water bottle into a shitty thermos basically. It's really nice to be able to drink lukewarm water instead of near-freezing water when it's nuking out and you've been moving for hours. One more thing - make a stove board or two! Assuming you are using whisperlite-style stoves, the legs do heat up and start melting into your snow table without a board, also it just helps stabilize the whole thing. You don't want to spill your hard-earned pot of water. The stability thing would be a factor even if using canister stoves. |
Ben Taggartwrote: Pro tip on making a stove board. Take a piece of blue closed-cell foam cut it 16-18" long by 10-12" wide. Then glue a piece of newspaper tin or similar sheet metal to it. The board is flexible enough and not too wide to be slid down one's pack and the tin provides some rigidity and heat reflection. |
