New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #14

Hey Carl... thanks for always checking in with updates.  Wish you could come set some problems on my indoor wall... I'm enjoying great big holds with absolutely no crimps or nubs.  Picture a nice flat sidewalk... a V.0000.     I feel like a superstar.

A couple things this morning... hopefully someone will weigh in.  Kaiser insurance gave us something called 'ClassPass' and it includes 1000s of on-demand videos for free, and livestream classes at a discount.  I'm secretly trying to find a good livestream for Tony (cycling) because he has lost all hope and seems to have given up on life.  However, I don't think I know what 'livestream' really is and I'm feeling very out of touch here.  I THINK it is an actual class being held somewhere, being streamed live... where you actually participate in a class happening NOW?  Like, could you meet friends in such a class?  I think Tony misses having to show up somewhere, work out hard, and have buddies to cycle with and shoot the shit with.  In Chicago he had his own 5 a.m. crew and they looked out for one anther... if someone didn't make it to the gym the rest would be calling.  It got to be a 6 days a week thing for him.  I hate to see him so lonely, and he does not feel motivated to work out alone.  Anyway, this Kaiser package does not seem to have many cycling livestreams... but maybe there are good ones elsewhere?

I also wanted to ask about C4 rubber.  After hearing so much about it, and being advised to resole my shoes with C4... it turns out they don't make it any more!  Once Adidas bought Five Ten they eliminated that rubber entirely.  Honestly, I thought that when I become a 5.12 climber then super-special sticky rubber might matter... right now it's a little bit vain.(?)  But we are at that place where I'm on pretty steep slab a lot... and some of it gets very polished.  Maybe it's ok to wish for a little extra edge.      The substitute rubber is called Stealth Onyxx.  The guy at The Rubber Room in Bishop said it's true... he will only climb in C4, but now that it's gone, it has to be Stealth Onyxx.  Needless to say, Tony is rolling his eyes.  I'm guessing you older climbers will say that you climb in tennis shoes... it's the technique not the rubber.  Does anyone care what's on the bottom of your shoes?  (ok, don't take that in the wrong direction.   )

Senor suggested I go back and watch Dawn Wall again.  So I did that last night.  I can see the logic of his suggestion... Tommy and Kevin spent most of their time on vertical face and slab, with precise crimping and footwork.  What I learned the last time out climbing this week is that most of the work I'm doing now on face climbing is transferring to my fingers. It's just a brand new awakening.  If a foot slipped, it was because I wasn't crimping down hard enough with my fingers (or because of a momentary distraction).  So, if this is now a thing... then I guess I will be needing to get back to upper body and finger training.  But it's not quite the SAME upper body work as say Gunsmoke.  Or is it?  For those who do face/slab climbing, how do you train for the crimping? 

Lori, check out Dave Maclouds videos on hangboarding.  Basically you use three different grip types and hold each for 5 to 10 seconds, at which point you should be failing.  A few sets of each grip type 2 or 3 times a week and your crimp strength will improve significantly.  It almost seems too easy.  

He says to do it on non climbing days, but I climb at least three or four days a week and feel that I need the rest on non-climbing days, so I tend to fit in a short session after climbing..  My wife climbs as well, so she's fine with the board in our living space.

Lori Milaswrote:

I also wanted to ask about C4 rubber.  After hearing so much about it, and being advised to resole my shoes with C4... it turns out they don't make it any more!  Once Adidas bought Five Ten they eliminated that rubber entirely.  Honestly, I thought that when I become a 5.12 climber then super-special sticky rubber might matter... right now it's a little bit vain.(?)  But we are at that place where I'm on pretty steep slab a lot... and some of it gets very polished.  Maybe it's ok to wish for a little extra edge.      The substitute rubber is called Stealth Onyxx.  The guy at The Rubber Room in Bishop said it's true... he will only climb in C4, but now that it's gone, it has to be Stealth Onyxx.  Needless to say, Tony is rolling his eyes.  I'm guessing you older climbers will say that you climb in tennis shoes... it's the technique not the rubber.  Does anyone care what's on the bottom of your shoes?  (ok, don't take that in the wrong direction.   )

Adidas bought Five Ten almost 10 years ago and they certainly haven’t gotten rid of C4 rubber, I believe every shoe in the current line comes with C4. It seems that they no longer sell it to re-solers, although I believe Positive Resoles (in JT) has a cache.

C4 is great, but so is Vibram xs edge, particularly for climbing in Josh. The Trax edging rubber is also good once it gets roughed up and broken in a bit (check out Yosemite Bum for high quality resoles, they have Vibram rubber too). I’ve heard good things about Unparallel rubber which is an evolution of the C4 compound made by some former Five Ten employees. They are located in Redlands and also do resoles.

Ultimately, it shouldn’t matter too much what much rubber compound is on your shoes. Try them all out and see if you notice a difference or have a personal preference.

On the subject of crimping, I don’t train other than climbing and I don’t think that’s the limiting factor in my climbing. I have been making steady progress over the years, physically and mentally, by prioritizing climbing and recovery over training. I’m breaking into 5.11 at Josh and can climb 5.12 sport and boulder around v3. Hangboarding definitely works and has its benefits, but I really don’t think that’s what you need at this point in your climbing career. Spending time on Gunsmoke or even Gripper Traverse would be more beneficial in my opinion.

+1 for Edge

Be careful training crimp strength - it’s easy to get injured. Focus more on open hand/drag for finger strength.

Check out Zwift for Tony!

Lori- stay away from the hangboard. At your advanced age your not going to develop crushing grip- better to develop instrument like foot work. And the boots? All the rubber is good now, clean rubber and well fitted boots are the ticket to standing down.

Get Tony up and out. You live in JT for God’s sake. So many miles of bike riding around.... have you looked into what the locals do? Group ride starting at 6am from the Donut shop????
Or get a Hot Rod and meet the guys who are like minded who live in Yucca, 29Palms or Palm Springs.
You can’t recreate the past, if you try to do that you end up lost and lonely.

Have a wonderful Turkey Day all. 

Lori, does Tony have a spin bike in the house? We have a Peloton, which is a very fancy, expensive spin bike with a big networked monitor and lots of classes. But you can subscribe via just the Peleton App for a lot cheaper and probably get a lot of the inspiration and functionality. Great workouts. They have leaderboard functions so you can start at the same time as other people and see your performance in comparison. Also there are actual "live" classes but timing on those can be weird, given there are studios in NY and London. 

Lori Milaswrote:

Hey Carl... thanks for always checking in with updates.  Wish you could come set some problems on my indoor wall... I'm enjoying great big holds with absolutely no crimps or nubs.  Picture a nice flat sidewalk... a V.0000.     I feel like a superstar.

No probs, I enjoy this forum. Its going to be 40 degrees on the weekend and my namby pamby lily livered climbing partner says it's going to be too hot to climb! I'm back working for the health department doing Covid contact tracing again as we has a little outbreak. 

I need to gloat a bit-I’m just so tickled.    A year ago I gave up climbing forever after thrashing about on Silent Scream one afternoon and going home sore, exhausted and totally defeated. Cosmic soothed me and encouraged me not to quit just yet... but I swore I would never go back to that rock  again.

Today we went back. After climbing some adjacent routes I asked for a belay on Silent Scream. “AT MY ADVANCED AGE” (ahem Guy) somehow I climbed it twice. I don’t know who that woman was... and it will likely never happen again. It just happened. 

I was thinking about the movie Casablanca where Bogie says “We’ll always have Paris.”  So now, come what may I’ll always have Silent Scream. Thank you Dwain!  

PS On this route shoes don’t matter and rubber doesn’t matter. Don’t need fancy anything... just brawn and testosterone IMO and fingertips of steel.  

Lori Milaswrote:

I need to gloat a bit-I’m just so tickled.    A year ago I gave up climbing forever after thrashing about on Silent Scream one afternoon and going home sore, exhausted and totally defeated. Cosmic soothed me and encouraged me not to quit just yet... but I swore I would never go back to that rock  again.

Today we went back. After climbing some adjacent routes I asked for a belay on Silent Scream. “AT MY ADVANCED AGE” (ahem Guy) somehow I climbed it twice. I don’t know who that woman was... and it will likely never happen again. It just happened. 

I was thinking about the movie Casablanca where Bogie says “We’ll always have Paris.”  So now, come what may I’ll always have Silent Scream. Thank you Dwain!  

PS On this route shoes don’t matter and rubber doesn’t matter. Don’t need fancy anything... just brawn and testosterone IMO and fingertips of steel.  

Cool! Well done! About a grade 18 as far as I can tell... Now that you know you can climb that grade NEVER say you can't do it again! You've done it once (twice even) you can do it again... 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Cool! Well done! About a grade 18 as far as I can tell... Now that you know you can climb that grade NEVER say you can't do it again! You've done it once (twice even) you can do it again... 

it is indeed a 10a and proof of a miracle. I’m going to leave well enough alone-no need to push my luck.  

And HAPPY THANKSGIVING to everyone! We do indeed have so much to be thankful for.  I’m so thankful for you all!    

Lori- congratulations.

In climbing the gains you make can only be measured by looking back.

Happy Thanksgiving to All!!!!! 

The biggest problem with Silent Scream is that it LOOKS totally easy from the ground. Like a 5.5 jug fest. but none of those jugs are really jugs. They're just desperate slopers. 

Looks like a great climb! It’s so fun to go back and climb something you found really hard in the past. Well done Lori!

Happy Thanksgiving all. Hope you are enjoying a nice day!

We don't do thanksgiving in Australia but happy thanksgiving anyway. Stay safe while you are enjoying yourselves. 

Happy day after thanksgiving everyone! Is everyone stuffed and overfed and lazy (except Carl)?  We had a good day.  I spent today fussing over iPads with Best Buy and Apple online chats. I need to see my family. And we need some streaming classes (thank you Senor... this must be a new thing with Peleton, their App is PERFECT. Tony can cycle along on his recumbent bike. Praying this works.   )

Meanwhile I am so full of myself for Silent Scream (although definitely not a “send”... in the most unflattering way I got myself to the top and I’m taking the win).  

I’m excited to check out other macho routes and making a list for those days when I have the skills/strength  to change it up. So. How about North Overhang on Intersection Rock? How about Bewitched (BRANDT).

There’s also Short Wall in Indian Cove where I could work on a progression of cracks.

There was a route on Echo Rock just to the right of a route I climbed (Stick To What) that would be on my “someday soon” list of stuff I can’t climb yet. 10c

Did anyone get divorced this week?  I have two family members who called it quits yesterday. I hope it’s not catching!  Hang in there... 2020 is on its way OUT. 

Lori - I'd be happy to put a rope on Bewitched sometime. I don't think it gets much sun this time of year, but on a warm day it would be doable. 

Brandt Allenwrote:

Lori - I'd be happy to put a rope on Bewitched sometime. I don't think it gets much sun this time of year, but on a warm day it would be doable. 

You look very dapper on that route, Brandt. God knows where else you’ll show up. I still don’t understand the posting rules so I’m glad you posted it. Looks really fun.  

Beautiful weather tonight, huh? Crisp clear and cold. I wonder if it’s ok to hang some Christmas lights or maybe that will piss off the neighbors. 

Lori Milaswrote:

There’s also Short Wall in Indian Cove where I could work on a progression of cracks.

Can't recommend the Short Wall enough for you to build skills. That's where the Marines from 29 Palms take their Mountain Warfare trainees for checkout. They have to lead 5.6 in mountain boots and full gear. Most of them haven't rock climbed at all before starting that 6 week course. It's impressive to see them just throw themselves at those cracks with dedication. There's at least 5 or 6 good sub-5.7 hand cracks on that wall. And an easy walk up or walk off. Plus you can go midweek when there's no crowd. 

Lori Milaswrote:

... Happy day after thanksgiving everyone! Is everyone stuffed and overfed and lazy (except Carl)?... 

One doesn't need Thanksgiving to stuff one's self and be overfed and lazy. Last night's tea was falafels, but I demanded a falafel BOWL, (that is, a falafel sans bread) as I was shunning the carbs. Cindy was MOST annoyed asking me if I knew how annoying I was, saying she KNEW I'd go and get junk food out the cupboard anyway. I was ADAMENT I wouldn't and had the falafel bowl (no horrible bread). 

Well, of course I had also three bowls of Pringles (do you have Pringles? Like chips, but in a tube), and two pieces of bread and butter and peanut butter with gherkins. Yes. That's right, peanut butter with sliced gherkins. Oh, and Roll mops and sour cream. Roll mops are raw Herring fillets, pickled, and wrapped around gherkins. I think I may be 'with child'... 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Can't recommend the Short Wall enough for you to build skills. That's where the Marines from 29 Palms take their Mountain Warfare trainees for checkout. They have to lead 5.6 in mountain boots and full gear. Most of them haven't rock climbed at all before starting that 6 week course. It's impressive to see them just throw themselves at those cracks with dedication. There's at least 5 or 6 good sub-5.7 hand cracks on that wall. And an easy walk up or walk off. Plus you can go midweek when there's no crowd. 

The day I did the first ascent of Monaco, on the Feudal Wall, a group of Marines Special Operations Training Group (SOTG) Mountain Warfare students were doing their student "lead climber checkoff" on the Feudal Wall. During the course of that day, two of them had to carted off in ambulances after taking leader falls.

After one particularly nasty fall, I heard the sound of a plastic helmet contacting rock-a Marine had fallen upside down and hit a ledge. I soloed up to him and asked "Are you OK?" His response was "I'm hurt real bad."

Years later I was actually hired by the Marines to observe/audit their SOTG Mountain Warfare course at their Bridgeport Mountain Warfare Training Center.

One thing I noticed is that all the students, and most of the instructors didn't seem to enjoy rock climbing. The main reason was that they never felt secure or confident climbing in those damn combat boots. My main recommendation was to use climbing shoes! They had full racks of cams up to #4 camalots but no climbing shoes. They were missing THE most important piece of equipment for cliff assault! Kind of like going ice skating without skates.