What's the highest grade you can climb with just brute strength?

Had this convo in the sauna the other day. A friend of mine who's never climbed asked me if he could TR 5.10 outside. I said probably. Dude's fairly fit and average height. Another friend chimed in and said it's pretty much the hardest grade you can climb with no skill, just brute strength.

Depends on a ton of factors. Near me there are some 5.7 routes that can't be done with brute strength because hand jams and foot jams are essential.

Dustin Helmerwrote:

Had this convo in the sauna the other day. A friend of mine who's never climbed asked me if he could TR 5.10 outside. I said probably. Dude's fairly fit and average height. Another friend chimed in and said it's pretty much the hardest grade you can climb with no skill, just brute strength.

Slab climbing completely destroys this argument.  

Bryan Kwrote:

Slab climbing completely destroys this argument.  

This was absolutely my first thought as a WNC climber. Brute strength won't get you anywhere on featureless slab. 

I watched a guy from Canada who has never in his life climbed anything climb this rt. We showed him how to tie a knot, fit him for a harness, gave him a basic run down of sport climbing, and then watched him send this puppy ground up! It was the most fun I ever had in my life watching anyone climb. It was so motivating. If he did it, so can you!

This is a comment on the page for Air Ride Equipped (11a): mountainproject.com/route/1…

Im guessing the RRG favors brute strength people as well as it being soft.

chris pwrote:

Depends on a ton of factors. Near me there are some 5.7 routes that can't be done with brute strength because hand jams and foot jams are essential.

Never underestimate the power of the layback.

The only possible way that could be measured is with no feet campusing.

Any use of feet is technique. 

Brute strength will not get you very far- heck the first 5.5 stemming corner will shut them down cold. Nothing like watching a bodybuilder try to climb- it’s quite entertaining.

Give me a person who dances, surfs or is a gymnast they can climb well right out of the box. 

I have seen several gym mutants campus their way up 5.13+ cave routes 

Bryan Kwrote:

Never underestimate the power of the layback.

How do you layback up a straight crack that isn't in a corner? I mean, I get that you could put the tiniest bit of shoe edge in the crack and try to layback that way, but on a small hands crack that requires skill enough to not count as brute strength climbing to me. Even leaving that aside, I would argue that knowing how to layback up a route in general does count as a climbing technique that negates the brute strength only claim.

chris pwrote:

How do you layback up a straight crack that isn't in a corner?

Brute strength. C'mon now

chris pwrote:

How do you layback up a straight crack that isn't in a corner?

https://youtu.be/3ZrgsJ19uAU

Go to 2:20

And the wider the crack is the easier it gets to do this.  I guarantee if you hung out below Supercrack in Indian Creek on any given weekend you will see many people on TR laybacking it. 

Bryan Kwrote:

https://youtu.be/3ZrgsJ19uAU

Go to 2:20

And the wider the crack is the easier it gets to do this.  I guarantee if you hung out below Supercrack in Indian Creek on any given weekend you will see many people on TR laybacking it. 

Looks to me like he's getting toe jams in there, so I'd hardly call that a brute strength approach. 

chris pwrote:

How do you layback up a straight crack that isn't in a corner? ...

Like this...  Way to technical for brute strength though.

Anybody here ever meet Too Strong Dave? When he first started showing up at Tahquitz/Suicide he was as strong as they get. He went to Marine bars in 29 Palms, set up at a table, and proceeded to arm wrestle for bets. Those boys would line up for their shot and lose. Dave broke a guy's arm once. Anyway, when he started out his climbing was a total sh*t show. Then, one day, he figured out that he had feet. The rest is history.

T Legowrote:

This was absolutely my first thought as a WNC climber. Brute strength won't get you anywhere on featureless slab. 

Brute strength won't get you very far on featured slab. 

I dunno. I know someone who got an 11, at The Fins (top rope), back when they were new to climbing. Long and willowy, the balancy moves suited him well. 

I've also watched the "brute strength" guys get totally pumped before they even get to the top of a short gym route. Death gripping so hard their neck veins were popping, lol!