Totems are over priced

Clearly Totems are for sport wankers that need gear every 5 ft. All of the rest of us are too poor so we run it out to where our cheap cam will fit.

Used 2climb wrote:

Clearly Totems are for sport wankers that need gear every 5 ft. All of the rest of us are too poor so we run it out to where our cheap cam will fit.

Deven Lewis wrote:

Somebody should tell Brent Perkins he is climbing on a beginners rack.

It's funny because I just watched this and it seems like there are a number of small gear placements that he goes past where a black totem would be rad. Also lots of bolts. I get he's trying to do some "rad trad" in a normally sport zone, but seems like weird hill to die on, potentially. 

Y'all I just received my totems in the mail and it came with this shirt?  Is this normal?  I didn't order any extra totem merch.

(Not me, obviously)

Climbing is like being into restoring cars.   You don’t have to be rich but somehow you just find a way to make it happen.   A lot of the guys I know who restore or build cars live in crap hole homes but their garage is awesome.  Climbing is similar, lots of climbers just scrapping by in life but they somehow find a way to get the gear they want or need.  Obviously not a hard and fast rule. 

This thread is ridiculous. Are totems better? Yes. Are they worth the extra cost? That is up to the buyer...

Schuyler Baer wrote:

This thread is ridiculous. Are totems better? Yes. Are they worth the extra cost? That is up to the buyer...

Isn’t this the whole point of message board threads? To argue over minutiae of pointless crap?   Do I really care if someone likes Totems or not?  No, but if they publicly disagree with me I’ll spend hours a day trying to convince people I don’t know and will never meet that I’m right and they are wrong.   It’s apparently the American way now. 

Lots of good things said here.

I'd fully agreed with a previously point made in great details - Totems are objectively better cam. They are also more expensive. Does that mean you should get some? I don't know, and I don't really care. We all have different needs/priority.

For my part, I like them because they expand a bit the range of climbs/situation where I'm comfortable with the gear, compared with my previous C4/Mastercams frankeinrack. Ultimately, that's something important for me in climbing. I like to be able to climb harder not so much to tick grades Redpoints/onsights, but rather because it allows me to explore a more diverse range of climbing experiences. Likewise, I picked up trad largely for the same reason. Totems contribute a little bit to that for the reason I just mentioned.

Franck Vee wrote:

For my part, I like them because they expand a bit the range of climbs/situation where I'm comfortable with the gear, compared with my previous C4/Mastercams frankeinrack. Ultimately, that's something important for me in climbing. I like to be able to climb harder not so much to tick grades Redpoints/onsights, but rather because it allows me to explore a more diverse range of climbing experiences. Likewise, I picked up trad largely for the same reason. Totems contribute a little bit to that for the reason I just mentioned.

This is a great way to explain it, Franck. Same here. By grades or ability I'm a LAUGHABLE climber. Nobody will ever been impressed by my ticks or objectives. But I'm in my 50s and have a great time doing something I love with my close friends and my kids. The extra margin of confidence/safety allows me to expand what I can do and where I can go. And that's a great thing. It's like having a slightly better performing pair of skis that allows you to handle steeper or nastier conditions. It opens up the mountain a bit. 

Same here - I have black and blue because they give me more placement options, not because I need them for the chill things I get on.  Same reason I have a tricam set.

Nathan Sullivan wrote:

Same here - I have black and blue because they give me more placement options, not because I need them for the chill things I get on.  Same reason I have a tricam set.

.... though I will admit that I giggled a little each time I received one in the mail.

Totems are almost like cheating.

Totems are aid

As the OP, I should note that my stance was never "Totems are too expensive"

I just never saw the hype, and while I admit there were a lot of solid points I hadn't considered that were brought up, I won't be building a rack anytime soon.

I'll use my blue until I replace it with the offset I broke, and for me it really just boils down to what you're used to.

I like my BD/alien/C3/ball nut rack. I've never wished I had a totem instead, but I bet I'd get used to them over time if I ever sold out and converted.

Also yes, Totems are aid and free ascents with them are a lesser style

David K wrote:

If you're worried about inspiring false confidence in beginners, then stop bringing up the YDS, as this might inspire false confidence in a beginner heading up a 5.6 thinking it will be easy to protect because it's a "5.6".

I almost did this one route called "all I wanted was a Pepsi" as my first trad line, 120ft of 5.6 (although the bottom of it is slabby and harder than half the 5.9s I've done). My friend told me it's a bad idea, and he put me on a 5.9 50ft crack climb instead. I'm so fucking thankful for that. 

I've done pepsi a couple times now, and there is like three solid gear placements on the entire route. You can plug in other gear, but I'm most positive it won't do a damn thing for you. 

The 5.9 crack is really misshapen, so you can plug in gear of nearly any size, at any time, during the first 80% of the climb. Way more chill, because even though I hung three times, I trusted that I wasn't gonna deck or take any massive whippers. 

I'm still scared to fuck up on pepsi lol

I just found some Totem knock-offs on Alibaba called Glorious XiCams! They cost half as much so I figure they must have at least half the gripping power

BTW on what basis is anything overpriced? Totem seems to have no problem selling them. Maybe they're underpriced!

If only some smart dudes came up with a theory as to how prices come into being. Perhaps finding the nexus between what quantity buyers are willing to pay and what quantity sellers are willing to sell at a given price. 

Oh well

Totems save you from nailing sawed-off angles.  Do you need them?  No of course not, but if you're going aid climbing and want to nail less they are well worth the price.   Offset aliens are awesome, but I usually leave offsets for pro and back clean totems.  

The flaring pin scars where totems are bomber will often take nothing else other than a pin.  Totems are undoubtedly the best cam on the market for flairs and pin scars.  For this you pay a premium.   

What about durability? Any thoughts on how Totems stand up overtime?  I have had some of my C4s for 20+ yrs and they are going strong after some reslinging.  Now my totems, I noticed after using them in more aggressive rock (think Voo or lg. grained granite at Lumpy) seem to take a bit of beating on their lobes with some dings in that soft metal. Now I realize a few things: I can sometimes be hamfisted in slamming in gear when gripped, my followers might be a little clumsy when cleaning my gear, and oops I dropped that one blue Totem and that is on me (20 ft with some bounces). I realize that the soft metal in Totems allows for better bite and is probably very intentional. However, the metal on the lobes on my C4s are in rather good shape despite being some of my initial (read shitty, clumsy) placements.  So now I use totems more sparingly and rarely bring them unless I really need something for offset, shallow or otherwise tricky placements. 

The totem lobes seem to take more of a beating quicker than camalots for sure.  The complexity of the totem means that broken cables and reslings will be way more annoying than camalots.  

Personal decision on what cams to buy, just don't get those link cams things.