New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #13

I went in to Rock and Resole to try on my TC Pro that they are customizing for my weird left foot (isn't that a movie with Daniel Day Lewis?) Here are a couple of photos.

It is amazing how soft the leather boot part is, more like a sock than a shoe. They added the pink leather to make room for my second and third toes. Now they need to replace the rand and do a half re-sole. I'm nursing an injured finger so this is a good time to be without my shoes, but I am jonesing to try these out! 70 degrees and no smoke is so nice!

Badass, good luck.

Oh, my goodness, David!  I just stuffed my feet into my new Scarpas again and I'm going to have to live with these for awhile, even in real pain.  I'm thinking 20 minutes per day eventually they will stretch across the width of my foot.  TC Pros are WONDERFUL!  So glad you got yours all worked out.  

Would anyone care to share their route goals for the near future?  Mine will not interest anyone but J Tree locals, I suspect... but there is a 'theme' here--you might guess.     Any inside info or comments on these routes would be really appreciated.  I have only climbed Loose Lady before, but these are beautiful routes that have called to me for a long time.  

It's funny... some of these routes are so special to me that I don't want to fuck them up by climbing them too soon.  I'd rather wait until I know I can climb them well, and with a little grace. They are worth building up to.  A few others I might be able to work on now.  It's nice to have goals--I'm making a little picture board. (don't laugh)   

R.A.F.  - 5.9  Echo Cove

Chalk Up Another One - 5.10a  The Wall

Dog Day Afternoon - 5.10b  South Horror Roc

Loose Lady - 5.10a  Houser Buttress

EBGB's  - 5.10d  EBGB Block

Run For Your Life - 5.10b  Tumbling Rainbow Formation

Tumbling Rainbow - 5.9 Tumbling Rainbow Formation 

An Eye for an Eye and a Route for a Route - 5.10b

Two Scoops Please - 5.10d  The Wall

H.R. Hardman - 5.8  Watergate Rock

Bottle In Front of Me - 5.10a  Mary Worth Buttress

Good To The Last Drop - 5.9  The Wall

Fifteen Minute Gap  - 5.6   Watergate Rock

Exit Stage Right - 5.9  Escape Rock

That Old Soft Shoe  - 5.10d  Belle

Chocolate Chips  5.8  North Cave Rock

Banana Splits  5.10+  North Cave Rock

Caramel Crunch  5.10a  North Cave Rock

Billabong - 5.10c  Intersection Rock

and later... because these are multi-pitch:

Welcome To Joshua Tree - 5.10c Mary Worth Buttress  

Desert Delirium -  5.10a  Wonderland South

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Wendy, hang in there.  Tony and I are making these decisions day by day, whether and when to leave the house, enter a store or god forbid go to a restaurant.  I worry that we will get lax and forget vigilance.  After knowing some folks who got sick with this... even the light version... I absolutely don't want it.  I've always said I'm less worried about dying from it than from living through it.   

I will say that I think there is something helpful about the vigorous breathing that goes with climbing.  I always had weak lungs, prone to asthma and bronchitis... and with the heavy breathwork of climbing my lungs have greatly improved.  

I hope you can get out and enjoy.  You guys light the way for us youngsters.    

Russ Walling wrote:

Off the top of my head... but some of these I have not done in decades!

R.A.F.  - 5.9  Echo Cove, SHORT AND PROBABLY SUPER POLISHED FRICTION CLIMBING.  NOT A LOT OF BOLTS BITD.  MAYBE 2 OR 3?  NOT SURE ABOUT NOW.

Chalk Up Another One - 5.10a  The Wall  GOOD ROUTE, AND I THINK IT USED TO BE 5.9.  NOT REAL HARD OR COMMITTING SINCE YOU CAN HIDE IN THE SCOOPY NATURE OF THE ROUTE.

Dog Day Afternoon - 5.10b  South Horror Roc.  PRETTY HARD AND KINDA SCARY WITHOUT A 3INCH CAM TO PLACE BETWEEN BOLTS

Loose Lady - 5.10a  Houser Buttress  POLISHED AND NOT LOOSE.  IT'S LIKE TWO OR THREE LITTLE BOULDER PROBLEMS WITH BOLTS AT YOUR KNEES

EBGB's  - 5.10d  EBGB Block.  NEVER DONE IT... STILL TOO SCARED.  HARD OPENING MOVE LEADS TO STANDARD JOSH SCARYNESS UP HIGH.

Run For Your Life - 5.10b  Tumbling Rainbow Formation  CRUISER AND NOT REALLY RUN OUT IF YOU KEEP YOUR WITS ABOUT YOU... UNTIL THE LAST MOVES.  I THOUGHT THOSE MOVES WERE PRETTY HARD AND KINDA SCARY.

Tumbling Rainbow - 5.9 Tumbling Rainbow Formation PROBABLY MORE LIKE 5.8.  NOT AN OFFWIDTH CLIMB AS IT IS MUCH OF A FACE CLIMB.  LOW ANGLE AND SECURE.

An Eye for an Eye and a Route for a Route - 5.10b  HARD START WITH AN ANKLE BREAKER FALL ONTO A SLAB.  AFTER THAT, STANDARD JT STUFF

Two Scoops Please - 5.10d  The Wall  SEEMED REALLY HARD AND BOULDERY ESP AT THE START

H.R. Hardman - 5.8  Watergate Rock  EASY BUT GRAINY

Bottle In Front of Me - 5.10a  Mary Worth Buttress  I THINK THIS WAS GRAINY AND HARD FOR THE GRADE.

Good To The Last Drop - 5.9  The Wall  RUNOUT AND PLENTY SCARY FOR THE GRADE

Fifteen Minute Gap  - 5.6   Watergate Rock  GRAINY AND EASY

Exit Stage Right - 5.9  Escape Rock CANT REMEMBER

That Old Soft Shoe  - 5.10d  Belle  HARD AND THIN ON SHARP EDGES.  SHORT.

Chocolate Chips  5.8  North Cave Rock  PROBABLY GRAINY RUBBLE, NOT SURE IF I'VE DONE IT

Banana Splits  5.10+  North Cave Rock  PROBABLY GRAINY RUBBLE NOT SURE IF I'VE DONE IT

Caramel Crunch  5.10a  North Cave Rock  PROBABLY GRAINY RUBBLE NOT SURE IF I'VE DONE IT

Billabong - 5.10c  Intersection Rock  ONLY A FEW TOUGH FRICTION MOVES

and later... because these are multi-pitch:

Welcome To Joshua Tree - 5.10c Mary Worth Buttress  USED TO BE REALLY GRAINY AND HARD FOR THE GRADE.  BAD FALL POTENTIAL IF YOU SKATE

Desert Delirium -  5.10a  Wonderland South  HAVE NOT DONE THIS ONE

Thank you so much, Russ.  This means a lot.  I will be hitting some/most of these this year-whatever my skill level will allow over time, good to have some insight on your experiences.  Thank you! 

Budman

I found an old photo of the group BITD. We all look young back then.

John

Oldtradguywrote:

Budman

I found an old photo of the group BITD. We all look young back then.

John

Long time ago John!  Hanging at Roger's was always special.  The New has some of the best rock!

Helen and Lori, thanks for the well-wishes. I'm just fine and feeling sorry for myself because eating at restaurants outdoors in the cold and dark isn't so much fun. And is about to end altogether.

Contrary to what some folks here seem to think, IMO no amount of oils or nutrients or healthy living will keep your physical condition from declining at a certain point. At least some of those things may slow the process and then you have to hope for good luck and good genes.

wendy weisswrote:

Helen and Lori, thanks for the well-wishes. I'm just fine and feeling sorry for myself because eating at restaurants outdoors in the cold and dark isn't so much fun. And is about to end altogether.

Wendy,

We are in the same boat regarding eating out. There are only 1 or 2 places we will eat inside and only at certain times, which is based on being very familiar with their cleaning methods and are worried about their survival.

Hang in there and if you ever want to climb or chat, let me know.

Devin

Devin Quincewrote:

Wendy,

We are in the same boat regarding eating out. There are only 1 or 2 places we will eat inside and only at certain times, which is based on being very familiar with their cleaning methods and are worried about their survival.

Hang in there and if you ever want to climb or chat, let me know.

Devin

We'll switch to take-out or delivery. Also trying to keep a few neighborhood favorites in business. 

I haven't climbed outside in 10 years now -- various health issues for me and my climbing partner husband, who no longer climbs. I kept up climbing at the BRC, though, until mid-March, then stopped for 6 months, then in Sept. went back first thing in the morning and auto-belayed a few times, and now I'm waiting it out again. It gets harder and harder not to be stupid, which I guess is why the virus is surging again. When we get a vaccine, I'd be happy to meet up at the gym.

I had a lovely evening at the bouldering gym yesterday. I caught up with a couple of friends (a ;lot younger than I, 'twenty somethings'). The young lady of the couple commented on my hair (I've dyed it 'Nordic blonde') saying "I like your hair, you just keep getting better!" 

Then, I was climbing a problem and a young lady was watching and as I got off she said "nice". It's always nice when someone says "nice" after watching you climb. 

Then I was looking at another boulder problem which involved a roof. There was a move in it I didn't want to do as, with two snapped biceps tendons, I didn't want to stress my biceps too much.  So I tried this ridiculous hard cross over move which seemed silly as soon as I tried it; it was maybe doable, but a bit silly. Anyway, just then a young fellow hops on and does the climb (I think he was wanting to show the old weird guy how to do it). I watched him do the move I initially didn't want to do and saw it was quite easy actually. So then I hop on and do the climb. As I hopped off they both give me the thumbs up and then the guy's mate says "nice, you did it nicer than him, his was ugly".  As I walked away the other guy says "is that true, was mine really ugly?"...

It's nice when people recognise nice, smooth, elegant climbing, even at easier grades (it was rated as 'hard' in the gym ratings, about a V3/V4 in my reckoning).  

wendy weisswrote:

Helen and Lori, thanks for the well-wishes. I'm just fine and feeling sorry for myself because eating at restaurants outdoors in the cold and dark isn't so much fun. And is about to end altogether.

Contrary to what some folks here seem to think, IMO no amount of oils or nutrients or healthy living will keep your physical condition from declining at a certain point. At least some of those things may slow the process and then you have to hope for good luck and good genes.

Wendy I understand your sentiments and I agree.  I have a “10%” theory... any combination of rest, diet, whatever that allows me to feel even 10% better is a win.  I’m sure feeling my age right now and all the limits I was hoping wouldn’t exist, especially since being away from the gym most of this year.  Right now climbing feels presumptuous to me... silly and all wrong.  

I know my days of climbing are limited.  I’m trying to make peace with this. You are doing a beautiful job of handling limits with grace.

But on to my bf Dave Houser routes.  We had a fun day out today exploring a place with limited information and almost no traffic. I wanted to go someplace that wasn’t all mapped out... go on a discovery junket. So I finally got to see Cave Corridor and try a Houser route and even wore my Dave’s Not Here t-shirt. What I’m hoping is that Houser will find out he has a groupie and will come out of hiding—if only to chew me out and tell me to knock it off.    I’ve even been thinking of having “First and Possibly Last Annual Dave Houser Campfire and Sing Along” weekend outing where we get to climb his best routes. (Is that even legal without his consent?) 

I got rattled on the 10b route (NOT Housers) and wish I could have stopped the negative chatter that so got in the way. Plus I’m not fit and not strong and I felt exposed and just a bit freaked out.

Beautiful routes though on a very pretty day.

Oh, and this little rattle snake showed up next to my shoe cam. We were within a foot. 

I'm getting nervous...Two days and I'll be here...

https://zenandtheartofclimbing.com/moonarie-south-australia/

Wow Carl 

Lori Milaswrote:

I know my days of climbing are limited.  I’m trying to make peace with this. 

This is a fact for all of us.

I grew up outside Modesto, CA where I frequented Royal Robbin's mountain shop that was a sort of catch all sporting goods store with great backpacking gear, jackets, tents, etc. Royal was often there just working, sorting gear, shooting the shit. We knew he was a rock climber who had done some things in Yosemite but he wasn't the legend he is now. He was always cool to me, a kid with a love of the mountains and the gear he sold.

It strikes me from the perspective of 50+ that HE had to quit climbing when he was a little more than 40-45 because he got arthritis in his hands. At which point he turned to whitewater kayaking, the next most logical thing to do if the western slope of the Sierra Nevada is right there and you're a relentless adventurer. And eventually that stopped working for him, too. 

The point is none of us really know how many days of climbing we have left. You can be Royal Frickin' Robbins and one day your hands stop working right for climbing. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

This is a fact for all of us.

I grew up outside Modesto, CA where I frequented Royal Robbin's mountain shop that was a sort of catch all sporting goods store with great backpacking gear, jackets, tents, etc. Royal was often there just working, sorting gear, shooting the shit. We knew he was a rock climber who had done some things in Yosemite but he wasn't the legend he is now. He was always cool to me, a kid with a love of the mountains and the gear he sold.

It strikes me from the perspective of 50+ that HE had to quit climbing when he was a little more than 40-45 because he got arthritis in his hands. At which point he turned to whitewater kayaking, the next most logical thing to do if the western slope of the Sierra Nevada is right there and you're a relentless adventurer. And eventually that stopped working for him, too.

The point is none of us really know how many days of climbing we have left. You can be Royal Frickin' Robbins and one day your hands stop working right for climbing. 

For inspiration, look at Fred Beckey, he never gave up.  Look at "Life of a Dirtbag" if you haven't already seen it.  As we age I think there are two options to continuing an active life.  One is to accept that our level of performance will decline and focus on having fun:  5.7 instead of 5.10, for example, and doing that climbing in a new and interesting location (Mexico, Europe) where the climbing is enriched by tradition and culture and the opportunity to make new friends. The other option is to find other sports, like Robbins did.  Maybe even consider taking up golf (no, not yet!).  

I'm not sure the Fred Beckey model for life is going to work for anyone but Fred Beckey. I wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in his lifestyle. He didn't become a singularity by doing as others do.

Andrew Ricewrote:

This is a fact for all of us.

I grew up outside Modesto, CA where I frequented Royal Robbin's mountain shop that was a sort of catch all sporting goods store with great backpacking gear, jackets, tents, etc. Royal was often there just working, sorting gear, shooting the shit. We knew he was a rock climber who had done some things in Yosemite but he wasn't the legend he is now. He was always cool to me, a kid with a love of the mountains and the gear he sold.

It strikes me from the perspective of 50+ that HE had to quit climbing when he was a little more than 40-45 because he got arthritis in his hands. At which point he turned to whitewater kayaking, the next most logical thing to do if the western slope of the Sierra Nevada is right there and you're a relentless adventurer. And eventually that stopped working for him, too.

The point is none of us really know how many days of climbing we have left. You can be Royal Frickin' Robbins and one day your hands stop working right for climbing. 

I didn't realize how much I was thinking about this until now when we are writing on this topic.  I know rgold will have some words of wisdom.  I don't know where other veteran climbers are on this subject... how you view climbing today, being physical, etc.if you were so skilled, strong and able as a younger person.   I know one 70+ climber is who miserable and angry because he can no longer perform the feats he once did.  

Yesterday when I was climbing I was really aware of an internal dialogue going on... I was on a vertical face, looked up ahead and saw nothing--just blank, vertical rock, I saw nothing in front of me, either, and I was hanging onto a tiny crimp buying time.  There was, of course, 'something', or I wouldn't have been able to move forward.  But there was A LOT of noise preventing me from believing I could get through the route.  

On the larger scale, how  much programming have we had about this time of life?  I am 67. (My mother never, to her dying day, confessed her age.)  To me, this age was definitely on the doorstep of decrepitude, the end of a physical life, the end of a sexual life... unless you were Jack La Lane who was a total anomaly.  There were some weirdos who were doing pushups at 90 with bare chests.  At best this time of life was for golf, bowling, and leisure while waiting out whatever diseases or ailments were going to take you out.    

My mom hated getting older because all her friends only talked about their doctors--every phone conversation started with which doctor they had seen today, and what new ailment they had.  She carried on, and refused to discuss her aches and pains daily.  But she was the rarity.

So there is this internal setting to the common understanding of aging.  I would like to know how much of that is true, and how much of that is universal myth. What drives us to age... aside from the obvious march of time. 

There are little haunting things that trip me up along the way.  My 'hormone doctor', Uzzi Reiss, is one of those cutting edge, forward thinking anti-aging doctors in Los Angeles who has been my doctor for over 20 years.  Over the last few years he has been trotting out studies that insist that LESS exercise is better in every way.  He knows I love climbing, but if I report fatigue, he encourages me to return to a lifestyle of a mild 15 minute walk 2 x a week--and DEFINITELY no more climbing.  In the alternative, he has prescribed a Prednisone-type drug.. This all adds to the noise.

I guess the upside of being an aging climber is that we can go at this with humor, there are next to no expectations by the outside world, and in fact, huge kudos if we do something pretty ordinary.  There is an unexpected grace that people start to take you seriously, respect your opinions, and don't laugh too hard. I keep expecting jeers when I slip off a foothold... but all I have ever seen is encouragement and praise.  I guess I'm still at the place where I started... just letting this unfold as an experiment, trying to keep my humor about climbing, and being willing to let it go when the time is right.  

One thing I'm loving to learn is belaying.  Everyone has their preferred belay protocols... I have some of them pretty well down.  But over time I'm starting to get more intuitive... more able to see the situation ahead and prepare for it, able to make my climber feel safe, be still when things get hard, let it flow when things are smooth.  

Carl, REALLY???  I'm packing my bags. Wow.  I hope  you take lots of pictures and have a wonderful time.  Don't forget the shoe-cam!  

Wow Moonarie looks amazing. Had to check out the geology after peeking at Carl's link up there (the explanation of the formations left me wanting). Wilpena Pound is a syncline, as I suspected looking at the image Lori shared. Here's a different view I saw on Wikipedia  

The rock looks amazing. The wilderness aspect of it calls like a siren. Have fun Mr. Schneider. Please post some pics when you get back?

Lori Milaswrote:

There are little haunting things that trip me up along the way.  My 'hormone doctor', Uzzi Reiss, is one of those cutting edge, forward thinking anti-aging doctors in Los Angeles who has been my doctor for over 20 years.  Over the last few years he has been trotting out studies that insist that LESS exercise is better in every way.  He knows I love climbing, but if I report fatigue, he encourages me to return to a lifestyle of a mild 15 minute walk 2 x a week--and DEFINITELY no more climbing.  In the alternative, he has prescribed a Prednisone-type drug.. This all adds to the noise.

While I'm sure anyone could make a case that taking it easy on the exercise would lead you a later life where your knees work better, your hips aren't shot, and you don't have a bunch of little aches and pains (that, frankly, I earned!). I'd rather be dead. There are amazing things out there to SEE and DO and being fit is one of the gateways to that life.