Shits we judge other climbers for

I think regardless of whether an ATC or Gri-Gri is safer, a Gri-Gri makes projecting better for everyone involved. No slow slippage, partner doesn't tire their hand out holding your fat ass, its easier to cheat someone back up the rope with a gri-gri and a hop.

William Carron wrote:

I 100% judge anyone who opts to use a Grigri when a munter hitch is readily available. "You mind if I go hands free, bro? It autolocks so it's totally safe" WHY DO YOU DO THIS? This is usually the same person who chalks up to belay in their solutions.

I judge people who sport climb and don't know how to give a good catch. That's what this sport is, climbing and falling. If you dont know how to give a great catch in all scenarios, I dont want to climb with you. The device changes nothing, it's how you react to falling leaders. If you cant afford an abd, then go for it, but it's a better investment than any other climbing gear, relatively speaking...the cheapest rope, shoes, chalk, harness, etc. is still going to get it done.

OLH, I'll let you borrow mine any time. But you're right, if you insisted, a reminder would follow.

Heard at the gym.

“Dude, come try this blue V5. It’s more like a V4”.

“Naw, I’m going to take my belay test”.

“Oh sweet, ask if you can use the Gri-Gri. It like does all the work for you. You basically just have to stand there”. 

Michael Abendwrote:

Heard at the gym.

“Dude, come try this blue V5. It’s more like a V4”.

“Naw, I’m going to take my belay test”.

“Oh sweet, ask if you can use the Gri-Gri. It like does all the work for you. You basically just have to stand there”. 

Nice mashup!

Black Totem.

Pass judgment on anyone who uses ANY pro besides the knotted balls of cord they use on Czech sandstone.

RRRwrote:

I judge people who sport climb and don't know how to give a good catch. That's what this sport is, climbing and falling. If you dont know how to give a great catch in all scenarios, I dont want to climb with you. The device changes nothing, it's how you react to falling leaders. If you cant afford an abd, then go for it, but it's a better investment than any other climbing gear, relatively speaking...the cheapest rope, shoes, chalk, harness, etc. is still going to get it done.

OLH, I'll let you borrow mine any time. But you're right, if you insisted, a reminder would follow.

Hey, you want a grigri belay and only a grigri belay? Fine! Just don't expect it from me, unless you enjoy being short roped, or sitting around off belay entirely while I get the grigri unjammed. Actually, not even then. I simply choose to not use what I know is an issue for me. To do so wouldn't be safe.  

No, you won't get a grigri belay from me, even with that truly great tool hanging right there, on the back of my harness. It's simply not best for belaying...for me. This is why we talk about this beforehand, eh?

My main beef is your noob comments in the post I replied to. That, is why I'd not climb with you. Or at least give you crap about it, since we could easily end up friends anyway. I tend to like people, and aim to do everything I can to keep my climbers safe and feel the most comfortable with the teamwork for that route. That's what belaying is supposed to be, to me, anyway. I'm part of your send, if we share a rope.

On my last trip to City of Rocks, we had a bit of an adventure belay going on one old school route. I had both an ATC and a grigri on the rope at the same time, briefly, for that, and it was much appreciated by my climber. And no, I did not belay him with the grigri, or use it to hold him while he projected the thing. ;-)

Best, H.

RRRwrote:

I judge climbers who look and act like brand new climbers, and couldn't invest in an ABD. Maybe it's less judgey, and more just the anticipation to watch them pump out when their partner bolt to bolts every route without going in direct. Can't help but hear NEWB in my head every time I look over at their extreme discomfort while someone hangs all the way up the route.

I 100% judge anyone who opts to use an ATC when a grigri is readily available. "You mind if I use an ATC?" WHY DO YOU DO THIS? This is usually the same person who rappels from lower off sport anchors.

Honestly, we watched a person belay very unsafely on a grigri this past weekend so I'll disagree on that one. 

Okay, hey, the grigri is the ONE device that locks HARD. Aside from the gym ones like a Safeguard, and, maybe, an Alpine Up. The others all allow a tiny bit of slippage, by design.

For me? That does make the grigri a reliable tool for progress capture when you're out somewhere. That's my use, self belay, single line rappel, stuff like that. And yes, I'd use it to belay refrigerators, but grigris and I do not get along. I have other ABD devices I hope to get up to speed on this winter. 

And? I was excited to have the chance in September to learn from a great group of long time climbers. Things like a munter belay, hip belay, carabiner brake rappel, that sort of thing. But, it all changed when a friend died, days before the trip. I opted for almost no climbing at all.  

Sometimes that's the best option. Don't climb at all.

EDIT to add, to RRR: I am so glad to see the norm change from "save the hardware, always rappel!" to "hardware can be replaced, please lower!". Only a few years!!

Reading this thread while stoned has become a thing now. Now that it's a thing, its gonna get judged. Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!

I judge your thing and raise you another judge of your thing in waiting.

William Carron wrote:

. . . An ABD does nothing for me. . . . A simple ATC or munter hitch should be more than enough in 100% of situations. It is only a better investment if you suck shit at belaying and routinely let the rope slip uncontrolled through the device. 

Agreed. That's why I say a munter hitch is 100% as good as a grigri. Belaying is 100% technique. . . .

(Emphasis mine)

I judge EVERYONE who speaks in absolutes. (See what I did there ;)

But seriously, I judge people who wave their ATC around and talk about how great their belaying skills are, but fail to recognize that there may be a slight possibility of rock fall on the belayer. That's just one example of a time where you REALLY want an ABD.

That's not to say I won't let an ATC belay me (as I did last week), but it is something to consider.

Just get the mega/giga jul and be done with this abd vs atc nonsense.

Jesse Martinwrote:

(Emphasis mine)

I judge EVERYONE who speaks in absolutes. (See what I did there ;)

But seriously, I judge people who wave their ATC around and talk about how great their belaying skills are, but fail to recognize that there may be a slight possibility of rock fall on the belayer. That's just one example of a time where you REALLY want an ABD.

That's not to say I won't let an ATC belay me (as I did last week), but it is something to consider.

Anyone talking in absolutes about how awesome they are and how they are 100% solid with an atc is just asking for it.

Old lady Hwrote:

Hey, you want a grigri belay and only a grigri belay? Fine! Just don't expect it from me, unless you enjoy being short roped, or sitting around off belay entirely while I get the grigri unjammed. Actually, not even then. I simply choose to not use what I know is an issue for me. To do so wouldn't be safe.  

No, you won't get a grigri belay from me, even with that truly great tool hanging right there, on the back of my harness. It's simply not best for belaying...for me. This is why we talk about this beforehand, eh?

Can’t have a thread without ATC vs Grigri debate... 

...but yes, if you tell me this beforehand, we wouldn’t be sport climbing together. Or if we must, I wouldn’t be climbing anything that I actually want to work on, just climbing some easy stuff that I don’t plan on falling on.

Why? Because I don’t think you could boink me efficiently with that ATC. And the reason you still think that ATC is great for sport climbing is probably a good indication that you don’t even know how to boink.

So yes, I’m totally making a judgement call based on your choice of the belay device. 

Schuyler Baerwrote:

I often talk to my girlfriend about what Jordan Cannon and Mark Hudon are up to because they're always up to something cool and it's usually on Jordan's (look I just did it) instagram story. We don't know any other Jordans or Marks and we talk about what they're up to enough that saying their last names usually sounds weird and takes too long. Judge me.

I should have specified that my irritation with first-name users applies to public situations like crags and online forums. Or in other words, in the presence of strangers. The private conversation between you and your girlfriend doesn't fall into that, though, as a grammar dork, I would point out that it's better to use the last names, not the first. ;-)

Truly, most rock climbers are not very proficient at catching climbers while belaying. It's irritating watching people claim one device is better than another. Not true, you are best with devices that you are familiar and comfortable with; and most new climbers don't seem to get any real exposure to practicing soft catches. They are unfamiliar with every single device because of this. Go work for a tree company, and become the rope guy. You get a lot of practice soft catching tree limbs as they get cut and rigged down. Compared to when anyone else I knew learned belaying, I definitely had a lot more confidence than any other new climber because of that background experience.

Lena chitawrote:

Can’t have a thread without ATC vs Grigri debate... 

...but yes, if you tell me this beforehand, we wouldn’t be sport climbing together. Or if we must, I wouldn’t be climbing anything that I actually want to work on, just climbing some easy stuff that I don’t plan on falling on.

Why? Because I don’t think you could boink me efficiently with that ATC. And the reason you still think that ATC is great for sport climbing is probably a good indication that you don’t even know how to boink.

So yes, I’m totally making a judgement call based on your choice of the belay device. 

I'm in agreement, actually!

I don't have any partners right now climbing all that hard, and pretty much single pitch. However, yes, if someone wanted to work stuff, then I'd use the Lifeguard I got. ABD, but it allows some slip. I've just not used it as much as I'd like yet, or run different sized ropes through as much as I'd like, single line rappel, things like that. I don't want surprises down the road. Covid sucks for getting some stuff done.

But? If it was really overhanging? Yeah, I'd go with the grigri, for no slip at all. 

Okay, done.

Now someone can post that old ladies are annoying, even ones who know how to boink. I doubt I'll ever get to climb with partners that strong, no matter what I belay with. Not as hard as it is for me to climb...anything. 12+ doesn't usually have 8- adjacent, but it sure is fun to watch friends on harder stuff! 

Best, H.

I get judgy AF if you don’t refer to the Valley as the center of the universe.

amariuswrote:

Moar safe is moar better!

Hey that's me - judge away! Put it on in the parking lot and got lost on the approach ;-)

Guess this is what I get for being lazy and not taking it off for a 5 minute snack run between climbs. My friends don't want to be seen in public with me anymore.