Fuel Efficient Outdoor Vehicle

Hangdog Stevewrote:

Aerodynamic drag is important for fuel efficiency, especially for highway driving. Therefore, I would avoid putting anything on the roof. A cargo box that attaches to the trailer hitch would cause less drag.

+1 to limiting Aero drag on the roof. Bikes are terrible up there and end up hitting parking structures and garages. Hitch cargo all the way.

Battery electric vehicles (EVs) save on 'fuel' and the overall cost of ownership is beating lower cost conventional cars.

Plug-in Hybrids like the RAV4 Prime, which is new this year looks really sporty and I like the styling.  The last generation of RAV4 has mom jeans styling, IMHO.  Yet, for that price, you might as well have a Tesla Model Y

Yet, you are never going to 'save' money buy buying a new car.  Try a ~3 year old.  Let the previous owner take the depreciation.  

David Kwrote:

Fuel efficiency is the wrong thing to look at for both cost and environmental impact. Buying an older used car will save you a huge amount of money, and most of the environmental impact of a car comes from its production, not from driving it, so buying a used car and maintaining it well so that it lasts a long time prevents a newer car from having to be produced. If you can get an old car that is also fuel efficient, great, but my guess is based on cost and environmental impact, you'd be better off buying a cerca-2000 Toyota Tacoma than a 2015 anything mentioned on this thread.

This isn't correct. Manufacture of vehicles isn't as big of a deal as fuel efficiency. 

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-over-ten-year-lifetime-of-an-average-mid-size-car-by-powertrain-2018

(The blue bars are manufacture, admittedly assuming you're keeping your car for 10 years.)

Maintaining an older car can still be cheaper and more rewarding. But it isn't greener if you aren't getting better fuel efficiency.

Frank Steinwrote:

Cosmic, Tacomas are extremely capable off-road. However, unless you go 2WD with a a 4 cylinder, the fuel economy is abysmal for a small truck. 

Yah, I didn't intentionally make it seem like I didn't trust Tacmoa's.  Kind of wrote that funny.  I trust Tacoma's in all things FS and WA.  Those trucks are great!

+1 for the Prius. Ours is 2016. We haven't tried loading the roof (and doing so would probably significantly hurt the fuel efficiency, but still be just a little better than a Civic or Corolla with a roof rack) because we've been able to fit everything we want inside. We've taken 2 bouldering pads + 2 backcountry ski setups for Sierra Eastside weekends and recently did 2.5 weeks of alpine climbing and backpacking with it, so trad rack, 3 ropes, backpacking gear, and 18 days of food all packed in it with 2 people. We can sleep 2 not-that-big adults inside. We usually set up a tent, but having sleeping in the car as a backup option makes it much easier to plan on dispersed camping. I haven't found anywhere in Yosemite or JTree that I can't drive it easily. Haven't tried Smith or Moab, but in reality any car can drive over most dirt roads and the ones it can't are usually short enough to walk. We save more time not stopping for gas than we spend walking dirt roads because the car can't drive over them. I also picked up a standing toolbox for work after the hardware store told me on the phone it wouldn't fit. It did.

#priuslife

DavidK you don’t need to know the whole system to come to some conclusions. My point was if you buy any used car there are other new cars coming on line to replace them. Not to compare used car vs new car The apt comparison is between a used Tacoma and a used Prius or other quality small/midsize car. If you got a similarly priced 2nd generation Prius or Tacoma then do the math. Tacoma are great trucks, but they are trucks. If you need the capabilities of a truck you have to do it. But for long road trips it’s silly to try to say they are in any way comparable efficiency wise. I’ve owned a Toyota truck, 4Runner, Sienna, and 2 Prius (all bought used).  I’m very familiar with the associated costs. 

Hangdog Stevewrote:

Aerodynamic drag is important for fuel efficiency, especially for highway driving. Therefore, I would avoid putting anything on the roof. A cargo box that attaches to the trailer hitch would cause less drag.

+1 for rear hitch cargo. I have a stowaway and it's awesome.  No or little effect on mpg and I can cook out of the back on a buffet table. The swivel hitch is nice option so if it's windy I can move the grill so the lid protects against the wind.

David Kwrote:

Carbon footprint: It's wishful thinking to think your armchair economics capture the whole system. When more people buy used and maintain their cars, it drives up the value of used cars, encourages car makers to prioritize durability, and creates a better repair market. And, to be clear, that STILL doesn't capture the whole system. The economics are complicated enough that we're not going to cover all the reasons why buying used is better, which is why you should listen to actual economists instead of doing armchair economics.

Wallet: My 2000 Tundra was $2500 in 2020. A new Prius costs $25000, a $22500 difference. If we're talking half as many miles per gallon, with gas at ~$2, and 20mpg vs 40mpg, that comes out to $0.10/mile vs $0.05/mile, meaning a $0.05/mile difference. $22500/$0.05 = 450,000. How long is it gonna take you to drive 450,000 miles, and will your car even last that long? Yes, I'll probably have to buy another car before you do, but another $2500 car, which I will buy in cash just like the first one, will cost me less than the interest you'll pay on your $25,000 car, and with the offroad use a climber will likely put these cars through, I wouldn't assume that the repair costs are going to be lower just because the car is newer.

We're not going to come to any sort of conclusion here obviously, since you already committed to a position, so I'm not gonna argue further with you--people can make up their own minds.

for some of us, its more than economics...it's the morality of driving a truck that gets 14 mpg when you don't need one. too many people driving around in their big trucks, trying to justify it because they need to access "remote trailheads," when in 95% of the cases, a more fuel efficient vehicle would do just fine.

James Frostwrote:

If you want something that is capable of off-roading, my Outback has been fantastic as a weekend Dirtbag-mobile. 30mpg, 25 with a rooftop carrier. Can sleep in it with a fair bit of my gear. Will take on anything a stock Wrangler could. Cheap too. 8/10

Maybe in terms of traction, but not in terms of clearance and entry/departure angles. Not unless you put a lift on an outback. With that said, there are only a few established places I’ve been where an experienced driver couldn’t get to with an outback if taking the correct lanes. +1 Subaru, just don’t think you can go “jeeping” in one 

I get 37 MPG in the mountains in a Crosstrek. Sleeping in it is a bit tight but at 5'9 or so I can manage it.

Do you really need a 4x4 or high clearance? If not, Honda Fits are pretty awesome if you aren’t a big person. They get 40mpg on the hwy, and my 2009 is still going strong with next to no maintenance other than oil changes and tires. 

I don't think I've ever talked cars at a trailhead and had people claim less than 35mpg. Even for Sprinter vans. I dunno, those numbers are waaay above what the EPA claims.

In fairness, I get over what the EPA claims too. But it does make it a little hard to know what to buy when apparently everything gets 40mpg or better. I guess just check fuelly: fuelly.com/

Someone should make a list of crags that need high clearance almost all the ones I can think of are not mainstream. Crags you can climb at with any car with an engine: gunks, most of the red,sinks canyon, wild iris, smith, squamish, front range stuff in Colorado, rifle, rumney, white horse, index, Leavenworth. I would say I need awd more for hiking/running and definitely only need it for skiing.

If you can get a Honda Element that doesn't have excessive miles on it . . . 

I get 25-28mpg (though I don't drive faster than 70).  Lots of interior space--take out a seat, or two. . . 

Doesn't need a roof rack, and isn't bad with it's high clearance.  You might even get better gas mileage if you

find one with a manual transmission.

Its funny to hear that people call 30 MPG fuel efficient since my 20 year old Honda Insight still gets 62 MPG.  Yeah, it a small 2-door hatch, but I never did mind sleeping in a tent.  If you are going to sleep in your car, you have to figure out how to move all your stuff on a trip.  More than 1 person on a camping trip makes car sleeping harder.  

Anyone have experience with a Honda Element?  I've seen some pretty cool conversions and have been considering it.  I'm not sure how much space there is in the back for a 6ft sleeper but I'd be curious ...

I think this thread can use a video of cute animals sleeping, eventually, in the back of vehicle

Children children puhleease....

EV's are for douches too

Love,
JCS

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Someone should make a list of crags that need high clearance almost all the ones I can think of are not mainstream. Crags you can climb at with any car with an engine: gunks, most of the red,sinks canyon, wild iris, smith, squamish, front range stuff in Colorado, rifle, rumney, white horse, index, Leavenworth. I would say I need awd more for hiking/running and definitely only need it for skiing.

Well, that kind of depends. If you just go to Rifle and Indian Creek, anything with four wheels and an engine will do (unless the creek at IC is running high(two friends drowned their cars over the years in that creek)). However, there are plenty of objectives around the Canyonlands that require high clearance and sometimes 4WD. The Homestead is a major sport destination that requires not only clearance and 4WD, but depending on conditions, low range also. Getting to crags such as the Enchanted Tower, the Bat Cave, Mud Mountain and Last Chance one will find high clearance really nice, and 4WD/AWD thought not necessary, is helpful. Even at Shelf, I was once happy to have 4WD getting out of the BLM parking to Menses after a heavy rain storm. And, at the Wild Iris campground I watched a guy in a WRX rip the plastic spoilers off negotiating the ruts.

I'm 5'9" and my wife and I have spent many nights in my 2013 Honda crv. With the seats folded down I'm about an inch too tall to lay perfectly flat in there. With my sleeping pad it kind of lifts up on the folded down seat and can get a little uncomfortable. I'm a back sleeper so I like my legs extended, but anytime I sleep in the fetal position I have plenty of room and am pretty comfortable. My wife is 5 ft and sleeps like a baby. We spent a month in Europe and had a Peugeot 2008 and I was able to lay perfectly flat and it was absolutely amazing. If something were to happen to my Honda CRV I would definitely get something that I can lay flat in. You can consider a Toyota Tacoma with a 6 ft bed, but that wouldn't fit your mileage. I've heard of/seen people sleeping pretty comfortably in a Prius, but haven't tried this myself. Recommend finding a friend/going to some dealerships and laying in whatever  you're considering to see how it feels. Someone else mentioned you will get some difference in floor heights which can be uncomfortable if not padded or setup someway (I put a pack under my knees). If I didn't have the pack I'd also slide down a little bit so my feet would be putting pressure into the hatch door and would be a little uncomfortable on the feet or knees. My wife has a Honda CR-Z which is a little sporty car and as someone else mentioned, when one of the cars go out the plan is to get something with great gas mileage( Prius?) And then have something for off-roading (toyota tacoma) And take whatever is appropriate for the trip

For many hatchbacks and small SUVs without fold flat back seats you could do this conversion if you don’t mind taking out the back seat. https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-Prius-V-Into-a-Camper/

I’d rather do that than build a platform above the seat backs that reduced headroom.  With two people I’d have a roof box to store clothes etc so  I didn’t need to move everything to the front seats at night. Put heavy climbing gear in the rear seat footwell.

A Prius has the room of a midsize car but gets the mpg of a subcompact. A Prius V adds some room by making it a wagon back instead of a hatchback. The Prius hybrid system is ingenious. Simple, efficient, reliable.