The (non-glorified) dirtbag experience

How does "dirtbagging" look on a resumé?

FrankPSwrote:

How does "dirtbagging" look on a resume?

This is a real consideration and I think it kinda depends on what field of work you're in. I do tech work and have never had trouble finding a job. Other professions or some employers might take resume gaps more seriously.

FrankPSwrote:

How does "dirtbagging" look on a resumé?

I took 2 years off full time work, did a little contract work here and there, and learned some new skills myself, had zero problems jumping back in when the right opportunity came around.

Was it worth it? For me yes I was able to complete some bucket list projects and climb in a lot of areas that I otherwise would not have, and I’m not getting any younger!!

Save more then you think you will need, if your stressed about money it will be hard to enjoy your time off.

Dont bring your dog, that would be a nightmare. Background, i lived in my car for 3 months then 2 years and now most weekends.

Big cost is losing the 8th wonder of the world: Compound Interest. 

The more you save/invest when young, the *much* more you'll have later. Our goal is early retirement (~50), and weekend warrior status (plus vacations) until then. We'll be able to afford airBnB and/or vanlife in the future and quit working years earlier. This lifestyle choice is also not for everyone. Delayed gratification. 

You're only young once, though, so it may be worth getting the experience in now, while you can "afford" it. Harder to do later on. I didn't start climbing until 30, so it was never really a serious thought. Prior to that would have been beachbum version of a dirtbag; traveling the globe for surf. That will also be part of our early retirement, though. Plenty of people in their 50s+ that can out-surf and out-climb me, so I'm not too worried about the age thing being limiting.

Matt Nwrote:

Big cost is losing the 8th wonder of the world: Compound Interest. 

The more you save/invest when young, the *much* more you'll have later. Our goal is early retirement (~50), and weekend warrior status (plus vacations) until then. We'll be able to afford airBnB and/or vanlife in the future and quit working years earlier. This lifestyle choice is also not for everyone. Delayed gratification. 

You're only young once, though, so it may be worth getting the experience in now, while you can "afford" it. Harder to do later on. I didn't start climbing until 30, so it was never really a serious thought. Prior to that would have been beachbum version of a dirtbag; traveling the globe for surf. That will also be part of our early retirement, though. Plenty of people in their 50s+ that can out-surf and out-climb me, so I'm not too worried about the age thing being limiting.

This is very true.  In the wake of the financial crisis many people lost money on homes or were in families that suffered eviction. Since then Young working adults opted to rent longer largely because they lacked credit to buy, equated financial stress with mortgages or both.  Unfortunately, for W2 and 1099 earners in the top half of earners (households making $45k or more) home ownership is one of the very few tax advantaged, government subsidized investments  available.  During the last 10years, homes in and around the top 50 MSAs have appreciated substantially.  For young college grads following the example of Alex Honnold’s frugal life style, the uncounted cost is missing out on doubling or tripling the value of equity in a home.

The choice to dirt bag isn’t driven by economics and life experiences are impossible to value.  And if the dirt bag start Patagonia II, who cares about home prices.    But the cost have one’s largest investments being depreciating assets is high.

 Sorry to be the depressing bean counter.  

Live Perchedwrote:

This is very true.  In the wake of the financial crisis many people lost money on homes or were in families that suffered eviction. Since then Young working adults opted to rent longer largely because they lacked credit to buy, equated financial stress with mortgages or both.  Unfortunately, for W2 and 1099 earners in the top half of earners (households making $45k or more) home ownership is one of the very few tax advantaged, government subsidized investments  available.  During the last 10years, homes in and around the top 50 MSAs have appreciated substantially.  For young college grads following the example of Alex Honnold’s frugal life style, the uncounted cost is missing out on doubling or tripling the value of equity in a home.

The choice to dirt bag isn’t driven by economics and life experiences are impossible to value.  And if the dirt bag start Patagonia II, who cares about home prices.    But the cost have one’s largest investments being depreciating assets is high.

 Sorry to be the depressing bean counter.  

Home equity over the very, very long term is unlikely to do much better than 1-2% over inflation. Some markets (CA or similar) are exceptions, but only if you got lucky on the timing. 

https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/shiller_longter.html 

I was meaning that people should save and invest in low cost index funds. The S&P 500 will outperform and be much more diversified than pouring all your earnings into a home. Doubling or tripling of equity in a home is much less likely than in the market, especially when you factor in that RE is leveraged. 20% down or less. Do that with equities and you're playing with fire, though. 

Everyone's situation is different. I suggest that they run multiple rent vs buy scenarios in a good Rent VS Buy calculator like this, and see if it might be worth it to them. 

And don't forget - home ownership includes hours of extra work/maintenance that you don't do when renting. Or you pay a high premium for someone else to do it.

/thread drift

We loved our 3-week van rental on the North Island of NZ (surf trip! no climbing). It is a great way to vacation. Living full time is completely different, though.

So I've been 'dirtbagging" for the last 5 months or so. Even though I've still been working full-time, I had been living in my Honda Accord for 3 months until I had saved up for a Ford Econoline van. I've been in the van for 2 months now, and can definitely say I love the lifestyle. So far I've only experienced summer months and this winter I'll be working at a ski resort, so we'll see how that goes. Overall, there have been some struggles, especially if you aren't in a very friendly dirtbag area, but overall it is great. I think there will definitely be some highs and lows, and you may definitely lose some stoke for climbing. I think that is fine, as I've found some other hobbies and rest day activities, but on bad weather days living in the van kinda sucks. You either can't go outside and do much, or you go outside and when you come back your entire van is wet. Either way I think it is a rad experience and worse case scenario, you have a sweet weekend warrior mobile.

Matt Nwrote:

Home equity over the very, very long term is unlikely to do much better than 1-2% over inflation. Some markets (CA or similar) are exceptions, but only if you got lucky on the timing. 

https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/shiller_longter.html 

you do realize you quoted a 15 year old article, right??? There are other areas too (like CO) where you can easily beat inflation with the equity in your home.

If partners are a problem then you’re in the wrong spot.

Matt Nwrote:

Home equity over the very, very long term is unlikely to do much better than 1-2% over inflation. Some markets (CA or similar) are exceptions, but only if you got lucky on the timing. 

https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/shiller_longter.html 

I was meaning that people should save and invest in low cost index funds. The S&P 500 will outperform and be much more diversified than pouring all your earnings into a home. Doubling or tripling of equity in a home is much less likely than in the market, especially when you factor in that RE is leveraged. 20% down or less. Do that with equities and you're playing with fire, though. 

Everyone's situation is different. I suggest that they run multiple rent vs buy scenarios in a good Rent VS Buy calculator like this, and see if it might be worth it to them. 

And don't forget - home ownership includes hours of extra work/maintenance that you don't do when renting. Or you pay a high premium for someone else to do it.

/thread drift

We loved our 3-week van rental on the North Island of NZ (surf trip! no climbing). It is a great way to vacation. Living full time is completely different, though.

Trip sounds great. Indices are great. 

Man, this is a super helpful thread. I'm in the same sort of boat and am looking to quit the full-time job, weekend warrior life here in the next 1-2 years, so it's nice to hear from people that are actually doing it/have done it. I hiked the PCT back in 2016 and so I got a very small taste of what having no responsibilities except eating/sleeping/recreating is actually like. It was without a doubt one of the best times of my life. I do remember at the end of the 5 months beings ready to get back some of the comforts I thought I wouldn't miss. I feel like having the van and my own space will be an absolutely perfect balance for that.

Gotta save up for the van/living expenses without a job first. I was looking to combine climbing with a ton of mountaineering as well.

Do it while you're young. It gets harder in more ways than one the older you get.

If you're living out of a customized van you're not dirtbagging it you're Van Lifeing it. . At best you have a run down old jalopy and spend most nights in a tent or on the dirt to dirt bag it.

A van is good for one person.

For two people I'd want something bigger to keep from going crazy and getting on each other's nerves. YMMV.

A dog will make it logistically harder (can't leave the dog in a vehicle on a hot day for example) but it doesn't need nearly as much space as another person.

For two people I'd go with a truck camper. You could get a decent used truck and camper for $20-30K. You can have enough room for two and a dog for an extended time without going crazy. You can have a real bed, a real kitchen, a bathroom and shower, a table and seating. Or for $30-40K get a Sprinter based Class C RV circa 2007 to 2010.

An older truck with camper with a gas V8 will get about 11 mpg, with a diesel about 13 mpg, an American V8 full size van will get about 13 mpg, a Sprinter based RV will get 15-17 mpg, a Sprinter tall roof van will get 20-22 mpg.

I've never done more than a few months at a time, but wish I did more (a year plus) when I was younger.

Home equity over the very, very long term is unlikely to do much better than 1-2% over inflation. Some markets (CA or similar) are exceptions, but only if you got lucky on the timing.

I've done very well in home equity on my primary and investment properties, but it wasn't all luck. In the last downturn in 2010 I bought a really nice place for 3.5% down (FHA loan), and rented out my old place until 2017 and then sold it when the market recovered. Both have close to doubled in market value. But the return on my downpayment on my new place (if I sold now) would be like 2500%. 

Right now equities and home prices are high. if I was young, it would be a tough choice. You could work and save (but I'd be socking away cash waiting to invest when the markets correct), or have fun for a few years and just realize I'd be retiring a few years later. But the point about compounding interest is solid, it's hard to save when your young, but if you can that money grows so much more than saving later.

I have lived on the road but always solo.  Having another person or a pet is a huge complication.  The expensive van and all the stuff is just crazy.  You could stay in nice hotels for years for the price of that van.  In the 1970's I built a camper on the back of a vintage pickup.  Today I have a crew cab for security of my limited gear and I sleep in the open bed.  If there is weather I cover it with a tarp.  Weather is pretty good here in the West and so is the climbing. So no problems.  

My tip is to evaluate what you REALLY need to survive.  To me, dirtbag is someone who has no money, a junk car and thrift store camping gear.  They literally sleep on the ground in the dirt because a tent is too costly and too much trouble.  Bathing is totally unnecessary. Wash your hands before eating, soap optional.  The next climb is everything. Food is an annoying detail.  If one is really nice to people and helpful, just about everything comes your way for free. Living a minimalistic lifestyle while fully embracing the outdoor life, hiking, climbing, traveling - that is the best. 

And now that I am old and have a bit of money I just stay at hotel and wash up or eat in a cafe and it's no problem.  The less I spend, longer the trip.  All good.

I can't  sleep  in hotels.  Too much weird energy.  When I was working photography on the road  I would  get  hotel rooms to use the shower and internet  but still sleep in my van.   We  finished a 300ft fa yesterday and then  headed north east.  Just waking up in national forest.  It's raining.  We are tucked into cozy  bed  in the sprinter with real sheets  and the the same  bedding we would have at home thinking about maybe getting up to make  coffee  soon.  We both have done our time  sleeping in the dirt and  loving our luxury.  

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I can't  sleep  in hotels.  Too much weird energy.  When I was working photography on the road  I would  get  hotel rooms to use the shower and internet  but still sleep in my van.   We  finished a 300ft fa yesterday and then  headed north east.  Just waking up in national forest.  It's raining.  We are tucked into cozy  bed  in the sprinter with real sheets  and the the same  bedding we would have at home thinking about maybe getting up to make  coffee  soon.  We both have done our time  sleeping in the dirt and  loving our luxury.  

Sign me up!!

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I can't  sleep  in hotels.  Too much weird energy.  When I was working photography on the road  I would  get  hotel rooms to use the shower and internet  but still sleep in my van.   We  finished a 300ft fa yesterday and then  headed north east.  Just waking up in national forest.  It's raining.  We are tucked into cozy  bed  in the sprinter with real sheets  and the the same  bedding we would have at home thinking about maybe getting up to make  coffee  soon.  We both have done our time  sleeping in the dirt and  loving our luxury.  

Best part about long road trips for me and my wife was the flexibility of camping wherever, whenever and having access to all our stuff easily in the van. So much amazing space to explore out west with national forest, recreational areas, national monuments, etc.

I’m a creature of habit though.. I don’t imagine I would have enjoyed my time on the road as much if I was sleeping in hotels or air bnb’s.  

I mostly prefer our truck camper to a hotel. A. You ‘camp’ in great places. B. Or On a Long road trip you Can drive until you’re Tired then crash in a Walmart parking lot in 5 minutes. Instead of looking for and paying for a hotel. Then carrying your stuff inside. C. Who knows if a hotel has been cleaned well. D. In the morning coffee and breakfast are 6 feet away and take 5 minutes to prepare instead of finding a cafe waiting and paying. E. Lunch, dinner and a kitchen to make them are always with you and likewise saves time and money.

You can’t just compare the price of a van/RV to hotel nights. Because the van/RV has resale value and you can save on meals.

The biggest drawbacks IMO are it’s more of a pain to drive, uses more fuel, and goes slower than a car. 

This morning was cold. If my understanding of seasons is correct it’s gonna keep getting colder for a while, then slightly warmer, until it’s hot again. It’s gonna be a long winter.

That’s my van experience 

Edit: have a tool box. You never know when you’ll breakdown. We went back to the east coast for a death and had a wheel bearing and an axle go out on the return trip. Radiator also sprung a leak. Just having the tools and a little know how can save you a lot of money. Especially when you’re in Wyoming and don’t know anybody. A couple hours in the autozone parking lot and we were back on the road from the wheel bearing episode. That said, don’t get a ford transit connect if you’re gonna put any weight in it at all