Fixed anchors in the Wind River Range

In light of the recent tragedy that happened on Pingora, the issue of fixed rappel anchors in the Winds have been brought to light. This will be a discussion of just that.

A tat anchor on the standard rappel route of Pingora was struck by rock fall and cut causing a climber to fall to her death. 

I personally am advocating for bolted rappel anchors on standard rappel routes. I am in the process of contacting the proper channels to figure out how to proceed with this. I understand this is a touchy subject so for the sake of discussion this thread exists.

From the accident thread:

"Bill Schick · 1 hour ago · Unknown Hometown

One could argue that the rock fall could have just as easily hit one of the climbers personal anchor systems causing the same result.

One could also argue that you are responsible for your own safety in the mountains and to bring your own cord to beef up rappels.

My thoughts on this are: While yes one could argue that the same result could have happened even with bolted anchors, if we can reduce the probability from 1 in a million chance to 1 in a billion chance, that is worth it to me when speaking of human life.

Yes of course you should carry your own material to beef up questionable anchors but the fact of the matter is that people rarely do this and realistically you are not going to carry 100 feet of webbing and cord into the winds to rebuild every rappel anchor you encounter.

More arguments for bolted rappels is that first, someone physically needs to replace tat anchors. Theoretically this happens when a climbing party determines the tat too poor to rappel off of. In reality this ends up leaving a rats nest of crap that you never really trust 100%. A properly installed stainless steel rappel anchor has an estimated service life of 50+ years with no maintenance needed. A webbing anchor has a service life of 1-5 years.

A slightly lesser, but equally important point is that bolted anchors are visually more appealing which may be important to land managers. Who really enjoys seeing a rats nest of crap on their rappel and then in the back of your mind have to determine whether this anchor is even suitable to trust your life to?

I am a firm believer that standard rappel routes need to be updated to modern standards which means stainless bolted anchors. In regards to Pingora, the rappel route is just that, a rappel route and does not infringe on any climbing routes.

Just go in there and put the nice anchors in. Be as discreet as possible when drilling and do the job well. Don't talk about it online. 99% of people will be thankful.

-AC

Edit to say, I'm sorry for your loss.  You might consider waiting a month or two before pursuing this particular discussion in depth.

An extraordinarily rare event occurred, therefore we need a wholesale change throughout this area, correct?

I don't think your advocacy of bolted anchors in this zone really has that much to do with the accident.

I like the use of the word "modern" - new webbing isn't modern?

Bolted anchors should be rare in wilderness areas.  Climbing far from the road is dangerous.  Climbing in the big hills is dangerous.  Climbing is dangerous.  And if we are concerned with visual impacts, I can also think of (in my opinion) other more important impacts that need to be addressed in the cirque of the towers.  Two glaring examples are all the human shit everywhere and the resource damage around the ever increasing number of campsites.  Reducing the area to the lowest common denominator to make it even more accessible to those who lack the skills or knowledge to follow a rap route and make assessments about the anchors they are trusting their lives to, or even the give-a-damn to carry some extra cord and pack out some old tat may not be the most wise decision for an already overused and sensitive environment.

I’ll share some Donini aphorisms below for your consideration.  

Bolted belays:
*scar the climb
*draw people to them and exacerbate the herd instinct in climbing
*create climber dependence
*deter learning opportunities for new climbers
*remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing
*are almost never needed

Mitchell Goldmanwrote:

Bolted belays:
*scar the climb
*draw people to them and exacerbate the herd instinct in climbing
*create climber dependence
*deter learning opportunities for new climbers
*remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing
*are almost never needed

A distinction should be made between belays made for ascending and those for rappelling. The later means something needs to be left behind (generally). For heavily trafficked descents, a nice, tidy, SS, bolted anchor is about as discreet and unobtrusive as it gets. The question is generally whether it's worth the effort to put it in. I highly doubt 3 or 4 bolted rap stations on Pingora are going to increase traffic in that already highly-used area.

-AC

Send Sloan!

Please let me clarify my position:

I advocate for bolted rappel lines in general but I understand the Winds are a special place with special consideration hence a discussion is a wise decision. In the end I believe the local climbers coalition will be a valuable resource in what the best solution may be.

My goal with this thread was specifically to move the fixed anchor discussion off of the accident thread in respect for the fallen climber. I felt that it wasn't appropriate for that discussion to continue there so I just wanted to create a place for that discussion to continue.

Mitchell Goldmanwrote:

Bolted anchors should be rare in wilderness areas.  Climbing far from the road is dangerous.  Climbing in the big hills is dangerous.  Climbing is dangerous.  And if we are concerned with visual impacts, I can also think of (in my opinion) other more important impacts that need to be addressed in the cirque of the towers.  Two glaring examples are all the human shit everywhere and the resource damage around the ever increasing number of campsites.  Reducing the area to the lowest common denominator to make it even more accessible to those who lack the skills or knowledge to follow a rap route and make assessments about the anchors they are trusting their lives to, or even the give-a-damn to carry some extra cord and pack out some old tat may not be the most wise decision for an already overused and sensitive environment.

I’ll share some Donini aphorisms below for your consideration.  

Bolted belays:
*scar the climb
*draw people to them and exacerbate the herd instinct in climbing
*create climber dependence
*deter learning opportunities for new climbers
*remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing
*are almost never needed

*reduce amount of tat and visual scarring of the rock

*could save lives by being a more robust way to descend

*aren't ticking time bombs

*are more reliable than the crap 1/4" bolts the older folks were putting in

I'm all for not bolting things going up if unnecessary or if there is a walk-off, but the case of dedicated rappel routes where people are wanting to get off safely and in light of rappelling being an already statistically sketchy thing to do, what are two bolts every 30-60m going to hurt?

Mitchell Goldmanwrote:

 
Bolted belays:
*scar the climb
*draw people to them and exacerbate the herd instinct in climbing
*create climber dependence
*deter learning opportunities for new climbers
*remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing
*are almost never needed

For bolted belays  I 100% agree with every point. However, your points aren’t valid for rappel anchors.

*tat is more visually unappealing 

* limited rappel routes reduces random webbing anchors all over the place 

*sorta need to depend on solid rappel anchors unless you are expecting to leave gear 

*loss of human life is a very high cost to learn 

*explore how many raps on tat it takes before it breaks

Like AC and others said, I think there should be a delineation between bolted belay anchors and a dedicated bolted rap line.  When I was younger I was very against bolted rap lines in alpine areas, but as I get older I realize that areas are much more likely to be shut down due to injuries/fatalities and tat all over the place.  At this point I am pretty much for dedicated bolted rap lines for popular alpine routes.

• it gets people out of the way more quickly.  i always carry a decent amount of spare webbing and spruce up anchors that need it, but this inevitably takes time - and if you are on a popular route this can mean backing up people above you who are also trying to get down.
• many older/classic routes have descents that follow gully systems, which tend to turn into a shooting gallery when multiple people are descending.  bolted anchors are easier to place out of natural rock fall lines.  i came pretty close to being killed in a similar situation about 20 years ago.  as i was rapping some climbers well above me knocked off a large rock that landed on a ledge about 2 feet from my tensioned rope running over the ledge.  it would have definitely cut the rope.
• a lot of older/classic routes have descents down the route line, which isn't very optimal for anybody involved.  the shitty thing is that you can get up really early, be first on the route, and then on the way down some crack of noon gumby can be dropping shit on you.
• it's easy to say that these types of accidents happen to inexperienced climbers, but if you look back over the decades there have been numerous extremely skilled/experienced/competent climbers killed at sub-optimal alpine rap locations.  the first person that always comes first to mind for me is kevin bein.
• bolted anchors will save wads of tat that end up in the environment.  slung trees take a beating and end up dying. 

times change. i don't think it is wrong to adapt with the times and try to come up with better solutions.  to me, the benefits of a modern bolted rap anchor far outweigh the negatives.

What I noticed about the rappel lines on Wolf's Head and Pingora was that they tended to follow loose, dirty gulleys and ledges. The way that they were situated made it really easy to pull down loose rocks when pulling your ropes or for someone above you to knock something off on their way down. I do think bolted rappel stations would be better than what exists currently, but a lot of thought needs to be put into where they will be installed and how they will be oriented to minimize rockfall.

I'd be happy to contribute to a bolt fund for this and contribute to the labor if it happens sometime next year.

Thomas Gilmorewrote:

Please let me clarify my position:

I advocate for bolted rappel lines in general but I understand the Winds are a special place with special consideration hence a discussion is a wise decision. In the end I believe the local climbers coalition will be a valuable resource in what the best solution may be.

My goal with this thread was specifically to move the fixed anchor discussion off of the accident thread in respect for the fallen climber. I felt that it wasn't proper for that to continue there so I just wanted to create a place for that discussion to continue.

I'm 100% with you on moving the discussion.

I might be with you on bolted anchors for this particular rap route.  Is pulling rocks on oneself a common experience with this particular rap?  (I've only used it once.)

I find those who use the phrase "modern standard" generally talk about bolting everything, and disregard those of us who value the traditional experience.  I've seen many routes altered where there was no pressing need other than convenience, and that are actually not climbed all that often, even with the "upgrade".

Can those willing to donate time or labor send me their email?

I  vote against adding bolted rap anchors in the Cirque of the Towers. It is a dangerous place to climb, adding bolted anchors only add the the illusion of safety.

Neil Lwrote:

I  vote against adding bolted rap anchors in the Cirque of the Towers. It is a dangerous place to climb, adding bolted anchors only add the the illusion of safety.

I agree, we should not improve the safety of a place because it is an unsafe place and it being a less unsafe place would be the worst thing ever. Remember kids, bolts aren't real, they are just an illusion *waves hands mysteriously*.

Neil Lwrote:

I  vote against adding bolted rap anchors in the Cirque of the Towers. It is a dangerous place to climb, adding bolted anchors only add the the illusion of safety.

I feel like this old talking point doesn't address lots of the ways bolted anchors remove objective hazards off a descent, particularly those in slim's comment above

Traffic to the Winds is increasing as climbing grows in popularity. As a member of the younger generation who hears in conversation, sees online, etc. how glaringly popular/talked about this place is - for better or worse - it seems a discussion such as this is due. New and experienced climbers alike would benefit from well-placed, well-considered rap anchors where it makes sense. I had my own qualms on a trip last a few weeks ago. The descent gully between Wolf's and Overhanging felt like a game of precarious rope pulls and choosing the correct talus to step on, all the while knowing my footsteps were adding to the ever-eroding "shooting gallery".

As long as routes like Wolf's Head and Pingora are graded as they are online, sprayed on Instagram by novices/sponsored athletes alike, heralded as world class moderates, free for anyone and everyone to drool over on MP, etc., this place will see more people. More people = higher likelihood of accidents, regardless of where your ethics are. This in itself is reason enough for conversation.

I may be a young woman from the Midwest with no business commenting on a thread like this, about a range that is not my home nor that of the many other psyched individuals looking to challenge and/or enjoy themselves on alpine rock. However, timidness aside, this feels timely & important. To echo those who have already written here and my silent peers:

Change is okay. 

I think the Bugaboos provide a reasonable comparison and case study as a world-famous alpine granite climbing area with a wide range of routes from 5.5 to 5.14, crowded classics, and a mix of bolted rappel anchors and tat anchors.

Let's look for a moment at just South Howser Tower. The Beckey-Chouinard is deservedly a 50 Classic, and it's not uncommon for a clear summer day to see a half dozen parties, maybe more on the route. The whole way up there are zero fixed anchors (my memory is a little foggy and there might be a few pieces of tat...). You gotta get yourself up the thing. Once you summit though, there's a rappel line with double bolt, SS anchors off the top, with published and widely distributed beta for nailing the descent. 

If you go to the AAC's Accidents in North American Climbing online archive and type in "bugaboo rappel" vs "wind river rappel" you'll see that there are more rappel accidents in the Winds than the Bugaboos. Is this alone evidence enough to say that bolted rappel anchors will eliminate rappel accidents? I don't think so, too many other variables. I think it's worth noting though that in the ANAM archive, there is a single account of a rappel accident due to pulling a rock down and none due to rappel anchor failure in the Bugaboos. Meanwhile there are multiple such accounts in the Wind Rivers, as per the AAC. However there isn't enough data there to run any sort of statistical analysis.

My personal thoughts on bolted rappel anchors line up pretty well with what Slim wrote above. I think it's useful to look at the frequency of accidents to help shed some light on the question and help move from our fast and instinctive System 1 response and move to a rational, logical System 2 response (see Thinking, Fast and Slow for an explanation). Rap anchors are going to be there for a long time. It takes a long time to hand-drill a bolt in the Winds. It's easy to get riled up on the internet. All reasons why the decision to put a bolted rappel line in the Cirque of the Towers should be based on a combination of our memories, ethics, stories, friends and climbing partners, as well as on available data and comparable areas.

I've placed a few pins on rap lines in the Winds. I can think of no good reason they shouldn't be bolts instead, other than I didn't want to carry a bolt kit. 

There are a bunch of bolts and bolted belays/rappels in the Cirque already, particularly on the harder, newer routes on the south face of Wolf's Head. There's even an in-situ hanging wooden foot ledge. I mention this just to show that it is not a virginal area as some people may assume based on the discussion. Seems worth thinking about that only a few people utilize these shiny bolts while hundreds (thousands?) of others use tat. Below is a photo of 3 anchors worth of tat I cleaned (and replaced with rope). Yes, only 3 anchors. And a photo of one of the anchors just for those curious what these things come to be. 

(This was cleaned July 2020 off the Brass Monkey rap line on the south face of Wolfs Head, a fantastic way to get down for those 'in the know'; perhaps because half the anchors are bolted!)

Mitchell Goldmanwrote:

Bolted anchors should be rare in wilderness areas.  Climbing far from the road is dangerous.  Climbing in the big hills is dangerous.  Climbing is dangerous.  And if we are concerned with visual impacts, I can also think of (in my opinion) other more important impacts that need to be addressed in the cirque of the towers.  Two glaring examples are all the human shit everywhere and the resource damage around the ever increasing number of campsites.  Reducing the area to the lowest common denominator to make it even more accessible to those who lack the skills or knowledge to follow a rap route and make assessments about the anchors they are trusting their lives to, or even the give-a-damn to carry some extra cord and pack out some old tat may not be the most wise decision for an already overused and sensitive environment.

I’ll share some Donini aphorisms below for your consideration.  

Bolted belays:
*scar the climb
*draw people to them and exacerbate the herd instinct in climbing
*create climber dependence
*deter learning opportunities for new climbers
*remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing
*are almost never needed

Mitchell,

Scar the climb: Have you seen the tat anchors leading down the East face of Pingora? Two bolts at each station is much less a “scar” than the piles of tat thrown around chockstones.

Draw People to Them: I’m hard pressed to believe anyone who is considering going to the Winds makes their decision based on whether or not the rappel anchors are bolted. I can’t imagine anyone who is unsure about going to the Winds is going to be swayed by whether the rappel anchors are bolted or not.

Create Climber Dependence: To be clear, nobody is suggesting bolting the belay station. You are no more dependent on a bolted rappel anchor than a tat rappel anchor. There would be dependence if someone were suggesting bolted belay stations that could be used as an escape route, but that is objectively not the case here.

Deter learning opportunities for new climbers: The only learning opportunity you’d be denying a new climber is the opportunity to evaluate the quality of tat. A necessary skill? Probably. Is the rappel off a highly trafficked, moderate, classic, well-documented climb the appropriate venue to impose that “opportunity” on someone? Doubtful.

Remove much of the exploratory aspect of climbing: No more than the Internet, guidebooks, and other sources of information about a well-documented climb. Exploration should be a choice for those who want it, not an unsafe requirement for all.

Are almost never needed: “Need” is the key word here. You can always leave tons of gear, rappel off something sketchy, downclimb, etc. and technically a bolted rappel anchor is not “needed”. I guess technically you don’t “need” something that is less visually impactful, safer, lasts longer, is more efficient, and way more reliable but it often makes a lot more practical sense. I’m sure you use an oven sometimes rather than build a fire to cook for example.

In the interest of narrowing the conversation to the subject at hand, I am willing to donate money to replace the RAPPEL STATIONS on the EAST FACE OF PINGORA and potentially WOLF’S HEAD if that is the consensus with fixed hardware. Nobody is suggesting anything more or less get done.

I do agree Mitchell that the Winds are being loved to death. We had a group camp within 8 feet of us. They had 2 dogs and literally brought a solar panel to charge their phone to watch TV and blast music. They shit all over the place. They trampled vegetation. I’m all for steps that thin the irresponsible crowd but I don’t believe that fixed rappel anchors play a part in that equation. They simply improve the safety and efficiency for climbers getting off Pingora.