Ball Nuts vs. Micro Cams

With many new micro cams on the market, I've seen a lot of discussion about which are best, but I wonder if ball nuts might be a better option in most cases for the .2ish and below sizes. They're cheaper, narrower, stronger, probably lighter, and seem more likely to place well in somewhat uneven cracks. I understand ball nuts can be hard to clean, but do they have other major disadvantages to micro cams? Thanks for any insight!

Search forums. Someone asked this last week. It seemed unanimous among commenters that ball nuts are way more bomber and preferred to micro cams. 

I have limited experience with ball nuts, but it seems one disadvantage is they require deeper cracks than micro cams.  

My experience is ball nuts are more bomber but a lot harder to get out when weighted. Not sure how people say they apparently never have the issue but when I bring ball nuts I bring a hammer too just in case.

Thanks for the replies! Sorry if this is a common question; the last thread I saw was from 2014. Sounds like I should go with ball nuts for the smallest stuff unless I plan to fall! Have you all found ball nuts more or less difficult to place securely than micros?

The ball nuts do need a tiny bit deeper crack. Conversely they need a narrower section of the crack to be even vs micro cams and are Much better in minor flairs.

Jason Zevenbergenwrote:

Thanks for the replies! Sorry if this is a common question; the last thread I saw was from 2014. Sounds like I should go with ball nuts for the smallest stuff unless I plan to fall! Have you all found ball nuts more or less difficult to place securely than micros?

I don't understand the comments on this thread at all. Ball nuts have their place, and can get you in cracks smaller than the smallest micro-cams, but they are definitely NOT a replacement for micro cams. If you are starting to build up your rack, get micro cams first. 

Justin Lingwrote:

I have limited experience with ball nuts, but it seems one disadvantage is they require deeper cracks than micro cams.  

Depends. Horizontal cracks, yes, equalised (!) microcams can be shallower and stronger, but for very thin vertical cracks or pods ball nuts are a lot narrower than any cam, assuming you want the stem aligned with the downwards fall force and not sticking out horizontally where it will apply a rotational force.

Sean Mwrote:

I don't understand the comments on this thread at all. Ball nuts have their place, and can get you in cracks smaller than the smallest micro-cams, but they are definitely NOT a replacement for micro cams. If you are starting to build up your rack, get micro cams first. 

I'd disagree. If you are getting down into 0.1 cam and below territory (what I call a micro cam), I find ball nuts #1-3 more versatile and stronger (if properly placed) than the equivalent size micro.

Ball nuts are amazing.   I carry both as they work in different places as mentioned, but I would take a good ballnut placement over a good microcam placement.

John Pitcairnwrote:

I'd disagree. If you are getting down into 0.1 cam and below territory (what I call a micro cam), I find ball nuts #1-3 more versatile and stronger (if properly placed) than the equivalent size micro.

I'm not going to try to convince you. I'd just recommend the OP borrow some of his friend's kit, take them to some cracks and get a sense for the types of spots that will accept ballnuts/microcams, how easy each are to yank out in different quality placements, and imagine working to make that placement on lead at your level. 

Micro cams by the general public are rarely fallen on so they never really break so strength isn't really an issue, for hard free climbing ball nuts are sometimes used but you have the issue of if you fall on them they will weld them selves into place pretty well, this is also why they're almost never used for aid climbing, cams are just so much easier to get out and are strong enough.

Lots of people will tell you (or repeat) that they get “welded” but I have not had that experience. Just like any nut that has been weighted you will need your nut tool to remove. Line the tip of your nut tool up with the “nut” (or ramp) (NOT the ball), give it a sharp tap with the palm of your hand (or use #13 nut as a hammer), pull trigger, and voila. I have never had one get fixed (I can’t say that for cams). I rarely hear people advocate for not racking (regular) nuts, even though they are more work to clean than a cam, but I do hear this regarding ball-nuts.  This is from someone who is feeling trim at 205lbs. Maybe even heavier climbers will have a different experience.

One think to think about when placing them is that the copper ball stays in one place while the steel ramp slides until it jams, so if there is any kind of texture to nest the ball in take advantage of it.

To be clear I also carry micro cams but if I had to choose only one or the other,  forever,  I would take the ball nuts without hesitation. 

I've caught three rather large Falls actually on the same ball nut which I ended up retiring and replacing. Three different climbers three different routes. And I've seen a bunch of  micro cams rip out. They don't necessarily fit in the same places.

that guy named sebwrote:

Micro cams by the general public are rarely fallen on so they never really break so strength isn't really an issue, ...

My knife, fork, spoon, and nalgene bottle are also excellent pro as they have never failed to catch my falls (that I have never taken).

NickMartelwrote:

Line the tip of your nut tool up with the “nut” (or ramp) (NOT the ball), give it a sharp tap with the palm of your hand (or use #13 nut as a hammer), pull trigger, and voila. 

Yup, this. Works every time. Especially with that springy #13 nut as a hammer. People who call fallen-on ball nuts "welded" don't understand how they work.