"Climbing is supposed to be scary."

What do you think of this phrase?

(edited title)

YGD

I'd say "SOME climbing is supposed to be dangerous." There should be routes/boulders for everyone, with varying degrees of danger just as there are varying angles, styles, and hold types. For some people risk adds to the enjoyment.

DRIVING is dangerous.  In fact, I often tell people, "Not only am I safer when I'm climbing than when I'm driving, YOU'RE safer when I'm climbing than when I'm driving."

YGD.  ...of cancer. Live a little first.  

"If climbers didn't die, climbing would"

Dumb. More accurate to say, "Climbing has inherent dangers that can be mitigated with proper skill, experience, planning, and training." The latter part is the fun. 

#oldnews

Well of course, since only runout trad climbing is actually climbing. Everything else is pebble wrestling 

The feeling of danger does seem to be important. The actual effects of danger are only unfortunate. Climbing is supposed to feel dangerous.

Just cause I'm an asshole who likes to flex, I will say this... recently I've been climbing in less developed areas where shit falls down and there are few or no established routes.  I like that process, even if it feels a lot more dangerous than what I had been doing.

I also like going to the single pitch sport crag where I've climbed all the climbs.  Climbing there feels less dangerous than driving through the crappy blind curve onto the highway I have to take to leave the crag.

Both of those are climbing.  

I don't feel like I need to traumatize myself every single time I meet the rock.

Did you really send if you didn't have an existential crisis on lead?????

I don't think much of the phrase, so here's one instead: "risk is an intrinsic part of trad climbing."

Ironically, statements about how something is “supposed” to be, are most often made by people who feel that reality is, in fact, not how it’s supposed to be.  A logical conundrum that drives them to post on forums.  

It’s silly.

Yes, climbing has some objective dangers that can only be mitigated, but not fully eliminated. (Just like pretty much anything else)

Yes, some types of climbing are a lot more dangerous than others.

But even for people who are pushing the cutting edge of the most dangerous climbing disciplines the danger isn’t the goal in itself. The goal is physical/mental, and danger is one of the factors that has to be managed to achieve the goal.

There are adrenaline junkies out there, but most climbers aren’t.

Calculated  risk ( and percieved  risk)

I agree with most of you. I think I get the most out of climbing when I'm scared, but it's the inherent risk of climbing as opposed to self-imposed risk.

I've just been reading Mark Twight's Kiss or Kill for the first time and it's a pretty interesting look into a mindset you see a lot less among us weekend warriors so I thought it'd be fun to discuss. (for the record, Mark doesn't say "Climbing is supposed to be dangerous" in the book).

I suppose a better, more accurate thread title would have been "Climbing is supposed to be scary". In fact, I'll change it.

Shay Subramanianwrote:

I've just been reading Mark Twight's Kiss or Kill for the first time and it's a pretty interesting look into a mindset you see a lot less among us weekend warriors so I thought it'd be fun to discuss. 

FYI  - Enormocast had Mark Twight as a guest

https://enormocast.com/2019/03/episode-171-mark-twight-still-coming-down-part-1

https://enormocast.com/2019/03/episode-172-mark-twight-still-coming-down-part-2/

amariuswrote:

FYI  - Enormocast had Mark Twight as a guest

https://enormocast.com/2019/03/episode-171-mark-twight-still-coming-down-part-1

https://enormocast.com/2019/03/episode-172-mark-twight-still-coming-down-part-2/

I have that open the next tab over actually already haha, gonna give it a listen today!

Shay Subramanianwrote:

I've just been reading Mark Twight's Kiss or Kill for the first time and it's a pretty interesting look into a mindset you see a lot less among us weekend warriors so I thought it'd be fun to discuss. (for the record, Mark doesn't say "Climbing is supposed to be dangerous" in the book).

I like Mark Twight's writing and got a lot out of reading it and his ideas.  I mean, I have a Gym Jones t-shirt, and I took his (If I am recalling correctly) advice and visited the climber's section in the graveyard at Chamonix.

It feels like a good idea to be skeptical of his work... at least his words.  His climbing seems to be pretty objective.  But he reminds me a lot of the group of edgy, older goth dudes I hung out with in high school and college; like, they seemed super bad ass when I was younger than them, but I never really enjoyed "being" in that aesethetic when I was that age myself (I'm a much more hippy-dippy person), and now that I am older than we all were it all feels a bit overwrought.

For instance, there are other writes contemporaneous with Twight and they offer different perspectives both on him and on the general scene at the time.  And I just personally can't imagine treating my partners in the ways he's described.

I think that Twights take on stuff is useful and interesting, but if you keep reading more stuff from the era (if I am recalling correctly, maybe John Long has some writing there, or maybe it's Krakaur's book) there are healither and more mature views about the world and climbing to be found.

Memory lane here with all the Twight talk.  
agree that his writings and ideas have value for all climbers (after wading knee deep through the hubris and angst) and that he definitely set a high standard....
but it also led me to think “lighten up Francis, It’s a hobby”....in response, This led me to seek and obtain my own sponsorship back in the day. Thus, Incorporating a few of Mark’s principles (but probably many more principles that were NOT Mark’s) the “House of Donuts Extreme Team” was born roughly 20 some years ago. To this day, Only a select few male and female athletes wear the coveted donut guy emblem (with hotdog and taco in hand). All thanks to Mark Twight.

Whatever you do, do 100%