Rope Coil/Management Help

Disclaimer not your average question:

This has happened at least twice before (I'll only report the most recent incident) as well and was wondering if anyone has a) encountered this problem b) known an easy fix for this problem.

My partner and I were out climbing a single pitch 5.10 OW to handcrack. The anchor was trad but we were using it as a top rope anchor 3 pieces all together (2 equalized). There was a little "z or zig/zag" in the rope as the route traverses and I put a piece deeper into then OW and a piece after I finished the OW and got to the handcrack.

I was lowered down fine but as I began to pull the rope I noticed a significant amount of force required to pull. At first i figured it was simply rope drag due to the slight wondering nature but upon closer inspection I realized my rope was twisting in such a way that the twists (similar to when you twist a shoestring at first it twists on itself fine but all of the sudden it reaches a nucleation point and twist into big chunks)  were blocking passage through the anchor and the only way to fix it was to untwist the rope slowly below the anchor. However, when doing this, twists just kept moving down the rope towards the followers end which had to be twisted out. This whole process took around 20 minutes and was a real pain in the arse. This has happened twice before, once scarily while being lowered. To the best of my knowledge exclusively on this rope; a bluewater lighting pro 9.8mm 70m.

Any help is appreciated as to how to solve this or if it truly is inherent to the rope, in which case its no trouble for me to just buy a new one.

Travis Haussenerwrote: 
a bluewater lighting pro 9.8mm 70m.

Well now, there’s your problem!

Seriously though. It’s fairly common. Several things could cause this. 
#1 is you lowered through a bad top anchor. Like the old Metolius rap hangers for example. Not always easy to spot when it’s a “twisty” anchor or not.        
#2 is, you didn’t properly flake out your rope when it was new. Pretty common and can totally ruin a rope. Ropes are coiled from the factory by machines, packaged and sent out. You get it, uncoil it from the factory coil, re-coil it, take it out and weight the whole thing lowering off or falling. Not always, but sometimes what happens is the inner rope is twisted inside the sheath. You weighting it kinda ”sets” the twists in there and your rope is fukked for life! To help mitigate this; uncoil the rope. Drag it out on a large surface (lawn, gym floor etc) pull it through a carabiner or around a tree, through the legs of a bench in the gym etc... several times to help “un-twist the rope before taking it for a ride. Gotta break it in sorta speak. Na’mean! 
 

Like the above poster my guess is this is a rope and not an offwidth issue like the above poster said. You might be able to cut out the kinky section, my guess is that you lowered from narrow chains( I do this all the time) and the last 20 feet of rope gets kinda internally desheethed which then causes kinks.

#1 DON'T CUT YOUR ROPE. Shame on you Trevor.
Salamanizer gave you good advice. Like he said you need to de-kink the rope. Pull the rope several times through a SINGLE point @ a 90° angle or greater.

Leading cause of twisting the rope is badly uncoiling it when it's new. Most manufactures coil their ropes mountaineering style. A few lap coil thiers.
Another is 2 horizontally spaced rap rings or rap hangers. The quick double change in direction causes twists especially when lowering.

The anchor was trad but we were using it as a top rope anchor 3 pieces all together (2 equalized). 

I'm not sure what you meant here. It doesn't matter trad/sport/tree/bus. What matters is was it a single master point? Was it a 2 piece anchor and a redirect? Cause that would cause a twist especially if the redirect was close to the same level as the MP and a few meters to the side.

There was a little "z or zig/zag" in the rope as the route traverses and I put a piece deeper into then OW and a piece after I finished the OW and got to the handcrack.

Any time the rope does a quick & harsh double change in direction a twist will occur. If the rope went from OW pro then around the edge of rock that can be a rapid changes in direction and twist the rope.

Lastly, don't tie in the second until the rope has been pull through to set the TR.

I would try what you guys are proposing but I don’t know the age of the rope. Why not cut the rope? I got another 100 pitches out of my old rope after I removed the last 10feet? When I cut the rope the internal threads on the end relaxed and the end of the rope stopped kinking. If it’s an older rope and the option is to use it and cutoff it off or just not use it. The only risk is now it’s not a standard length but cutting 10 feet off a 70 is still longer than a 60.

Travis:

In my experience, the number one cause of twists is when the rope is forced to run through, say, a biner such that the running rope takes a path with a bit of a spiral in it.  By "forced" I mean when a biner is prevented from naturally aligning in a way that lets the rope run through in a path purely perpendicular to the axis of the biner section the rope runs across.

I've seen this happen a number of ways with results similar to what you describe. Perhaps one of these was your case:

• top roping anchor where lockers were clipped into chain links and the links could not twist enough to let the lockers fully orient to the running rope;
• a redirect for a belay from above where the rock prevented the redirect biner from fully orienting to the running rope;
• wandering protection where sling-age was so short or stiff (e.g., a quick draw) that the rock or stiffness of the draw prevented the draw's biner from fully orienting to the running rope.
• etc..

Sorry about the excessive use of bold font.  It is just that that has been the common theme in the kind of gnarly twist-age I've seen (a.k.a. "pain in the arse").

Sometimes, the causal combination can even be the chosen belay device, locker, and how the brake strand is held.  But, while I've seen twist-age from that, it is usually not so horrific.

BTW: Don't cut the rope.  It'll be fine. :)

There's a twist here in the middle of my rope!

Cut the last 10 feet off the end.

Wow that was easy.

But why is there still a twist in the middle of my rope?

Cherokee Nuneswrote: There's a twist here in the middle of my rope!

Cut the last 10 feet off the end.

Wow that was easy.

But why is there still a twist in the middle of my rope?

In my example the twist was in the last 20 feet of the rope but I guess we have different definitions of middle.

One thing that helps is not tying in until ready to climb.   Many climbers immediately tie in and stay tied in while belaying their partner either on top rope or lead.  Any twists that develop cant “untwist“ themselves out of the rope and you end up with a stiff twisted mess at your harness.   This wasn’t exactly your experience but it can lead to a rope that is prone to twisting.   Also flaking you’re rope out a few times before climbing can help reduce kinks.   Twisted ropes are a pet peeve of mine and I probably spend an inordinate amount of time preventing it but it pays off in the end.  

Thanks for I'll the replies. Much appreciated.

Reiterating here, but two bends up top rather than a single 180 bend will twist the rope regardless of how twist free the cord is otherwise.

Rappel  instead  of lowering  especially  if the  rap rings  don't  touch. When you get to the ground continue walking away from the cliff with the belay device on the Rope and continue to work the twists out of the ends of the Rope. 

I have a vague unscientific impression that some ropes, after being used a few times, go through "puberty" where they twist like crazy in normal use.  Then settle down and become normal ropes.

one thing i have found, is if there is some sort of traversing or diagonal path from the last piece to the anchor it will cause the rope to twist like this.  basically, the rope wants to make a slightly spiral path through the last piece, and this just keeps adding up until there is a wad at the other end of the rope.

slimwrote: one thing i have found, is if there is some sort of traversing or diagonal path from the last piece to the anchor it will cause the rope to twist like this.  basically, the rope wants to make a slightly spiral path through the last piece, and this just keeps adding up until there is a wad at the other end of the rope.

Yes: spiral path is bad mojo.

Ropes are lazy like a lot of things. It takes less work or energy to make coils in the rest of the rope than for the rope to continuously do the otherwise necessary undulation as it passes through the spiral.

Keep the rope-side biners loose / free to orient to the rope. 

slimwrote: one thing i have found, is if there is some sort of traversing or diagonal path from the last piece to the anchor it will cause the rope to twist like this.  basically, the rope wants to make a slightly spiral path through the last piece, and this just keeps adding up until there is a wad at the other end of the rope.

In your experience, can any of the methods above restore the rope back to normal?

I’ve los it out, whipped it, pulled with a biner etc but have not rappelled off of it