Texas Quickdraw Chain Free Solo Guy

Since this seems to be evolving into a "how to talk to the guy" thread, might I offer this handy little PSA from the American Alpine Club.


Some or all of this has probably been tried already. But the video is a nice guide as to what level of ass-whoopery to apply when.

I'm the person who started a discussion that caught Tim's attention and led to this post (which I appreciate). For those who haven't read every post here, here is a roundup of answers to some recurring questions and comments:

• Yes, this guy is for real. When a friend posted this picture several weeks ago, I initially smelled troll, but this is no troll.
• He is not a free soloist looking for a crude backup on 5.4 jug hauls. Two nights ago, I saw him get on an 11a and almost fall.
• A friend of mine has seen him fall on this rig. The guy was on a 10c.
• As others have said, it is a mess above the anchors in the Greenbelt, and there is nothing to do about it. That is why there is virtually no top access.
• Some people, including me, have either yelled at the guy or had a talk with him. Nothing seems to register.
• Due to the above, I agree with those speculating that there may be a cognitive disorder involved here.
• Even if I agreed with the idea of calling law enforcement, which I don't due to the political climate here right now, there is virtually zero ranger or police presence on the Greenbelt.
• As tempting as the idea of a beatdown is, I'm not going to jail for assaulting a dumbass or an incompetent. And if he is impaired, a beatdown might be downright cruel.
• For all these reasons, I continue to believe that the best thing to do is get away from him.
• However, I have a rope I am about to retire due to age, and I will consider approaching him and offering to let him cut some lengths off as a replacement for his current system. I would offer him the whole rope, but there are some spots I don't trust anymore.

Thanks, Tim, for starting this thread here. At the very least, I hope it gets the attention of people who might climb here but are not in any of the local FB groups.

I think Robert S is totally spot on that leaving the area he is in is the best policy. But I also know when he has rained rocks on people, others were actively climbing. That's, I think, what makes it so frustrating that he doesn't listen. You can't just always leave immediately, you know? You're clipping to the wall and attached to the rope. He should just learn to boulder and stay off the walls if he isn't going to engage in respectful behaviors like not knocking down rocks, calling "rock," and listening to reasonable safety requests from fellow users impacted by his behavior. This is such a Texas thing to have happened too. I feel like here in Colorado people like that just go scramble mountains and avoid a lot of the situations he is creating and still get their thrills. 

Nick Rhoads wrote:

Sounds like this guy is on The Spectrum. 

I had a guy like this come to my gym, super smart, super nice, but didn't really get the problems with the way he was climbing. We took our time and talked him out of the shenanigans.

I agree, but when I suggested that locally, someone called me an "ableist," lol.

What you did was great, seriously.

In the situation I was in, that option didn't exist. I was belaying someone after I'd put up the rope. I just had to take it and hope my helmet would protect me.

T M wrote:

This doesn't seem right. The dogbones are presumably static so aren't absorbing any energy either, so shouldn't FF be infinite by this calculation?

The dogbones will indeed absorb energy. Not a comparable amount to a dynamic rope, but comparatively higher to a carabiner.

Anyway, the fall factor is an indicator of the severity of the fall, not the energy involved.

The impact force will depend on both the material absorbtion properties and the FF. That number will get spiked as the material's modulus (k) Becomes too high

Impact force =w + (w^2 + 2w*k*FF)^1/2

But did he have a dog?

However, I have a rope I am about to retire due to age, and I will consider approaching him and offering to let him cut some lengths off as a replacement for his current system. I would offer him the whole rope, but there are some spots I don't trust anymore

Good post. I would suggest cutting the longest usable piece of the rope yourself, for rapping (hopefully it’s long enough). And maybe a couple more 5 foot lengths for tethers and just handing them to him. Say “would you PLEASE use this to rappel from the top so you don’t knock down rocks which could hurt or kill someone. And if you want you could use these two pieces for clipping to bolts instead of a chain of carabiners Because this absorbs energy and won’t break in a fall like the quickdraws could”. Don’t ask him if he wants them or ask him to take the initiative to cut pieces. Just hand them to him say your piece and walk away. (Unless he seems receptive of the gift and is then willing to listen to more). 

Looks like an "accident" is bound to happen to that guy...

Also are bolts in TX that close together on every climb? Like Big Bad Wolf in Vegas where you toprope every single move.

Could you imagine dude found hanging from a bolt with a broken back?

Ross Dwrote: Looks like an "accident" is bound to happen to that guy...

Also are bolts in TX that close together on every climb? Like Big Bad Wolf in Vegas where you toprope every single move.

Lol. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Reimers Ranch has lots of clip-ups, and Enchanted Rock has multi-pitch bolted routes where the runout on 5.6 makes people cry. It's an interesting place for sure!

Here are some suggestions from someone who is autistic. If Quickdraw Guy is autistic, yelling him and other negative forms of interaction will probably make him shut down. I realize that his behavior is dangerous to himself and others and is pretty damn annoying, but I think that it would be best to approach him in a quiet, non-confrontational manner. Don't start by telling him everything he is doing wrong. Start with something positive. Are there any area climbers who are also on the spectrum who may be able to help mentor him? It is often easier to talk to someone who (for lack of a better term) is on the same wavelength and shares similar experiences. If he is not making eye contact and is giving you monosyllabic answers - he isn't necessarily trying to be an asshole, he may be trying to process what you are saying.

When you are autistic interacting with people you do not know can be nerve-wracking. He may not know how to approach others to ask for help or to join in. Negative interactions will only reinforce this and possibly push him further into his dangerous behaviors.

Please try not to introduce the police into the equation. Most officers are not trained in dealing with neurodiversity and there is a possibility for the situation to escalate.

Regarding Big Bad Wolf in RR, it's bolted for newbies and the section with close bolts is the short first pitch, and crux for many. For many, it's their first multipitch.

Austin's limestone walls are short. Like really short. Other places you have a few bolts near the ground, then they spread out as you get higher and the risk of hitting the ground in a fall decreases... For Austin, usually, there is no higher. Even Prototype 5.10c, one of the relatively longer feeling routes (which is no more) was only 5 bolts to anchors.

Edit: IE Dead Cats wall is mostly 3 bolts to anchors. A few routes with 4.

A lot of rationalizations half defending this guy (“it be more OKer if he was using daisies”) seem to make the silent presumption that bolts are magical pro that never fails. Sketchy.

abandon moderation wrote: Welllll he's probably more likely to die without the quickdraws than he is with them, so I guess there's some added benefit there. I suspect he is highly overconfident in his system though...

... except maybe he doesn't hop on that .11 if he doesn't have his "security blanket"

Jimmy Downhillinthesnowwrote:

Yeah, I do this all the time. Easier to make a tough clip rather that have an alpine draw flopping all over. Usually not with 3 draws but not a big deal. 

The dude in question didn’t thread the carabiners linking the draws through both dog bones, though; he just clipped two quick draws together, leaving biner on biner connections. That’s more the issue with his “chain,” as two non lockers can unclip themselves if they twist the wrong way in a fall

Nick Goldsmithwrote: who are you to tell someone they can't climb..   I was chewed out by a Gym guide for free soling at my local crag while he was guiding off of anchors that I installed.  told me that I was making him feel uncomfortable free soloing in front of his clients. he made me uncomfortable guiding without a helmet.  its a free world out there. the rock fall shit on the other hand is not cool and needs education...  the key is education not enforcement. 

T M wrote:

How do you decide what to include as an energy absorbing material and what to leave out? If I use a carabiner made of softer metal, does it suddenly become included in the FF calculation? Even aluminum carabiners absorb a decent amount of energy at high forces (i.e., deformation). If you're going to go this route, shouldn't there be some sort of weight applied based on how dynamic the material is?

Everywhere I've seen it previously, FF is measured relative to the material catching the fall, with no regard paid to the properties of that material (other than length, obviously). From there, clearly forces increase as the FF increases and as dynamic nature of the material catching the fall decreases.

Do you have a source for this FF calculation? Sorry to sound incredulous, I've just never seen FF calculated in this way.

There's a tacit assumption in the FF calculation that we usually use - that the material is uniform. That's not the case here. To a very good approximation, the metal is static _compared to the nylon_. If it were all metal, then you'd not make that same approximation, and you'd use the modulus for the biners (not exactly the same as the modulus for Al, but related), which would be crazy high. The overall form of the expression looks familiar to me - I used to calculate this with my physics classes - but there's something awry, since it has the impact force as twice the weight when there's no fall. Could just be a missing factor of 2.  I'd bet that this was derived for the uniform material assumption, though, and I'm not convinced that changing the FF is enough to apply it to this case. It might all work out, though.

Mark Pilatewrote: This dude’s lost all credibility with me.   Climbing with a pack at a single pitch crag.

but seriously, sounds like the answer to “why all the draws?”  could be as simple as “Cuz that’s what he got for Christmas”  
Don’t think a lot of thought has gone into this system.  A harness and a pack of draws was in his stocking.  Let’s go climb!   Wager a tidy sum this guy plots out along several spectrums.

Edit : and perhaps even more seriously, if this guy is a danger to others and himself, as seems evident, authorities may need to be called to intervene.  This goes beyond “check out the Gumby soloist over there”.   Can’t tell definitively from the pic, but is his harness waist belt upside down?  He may not be clinically competent to understand what he’s doing.

Mark, thanks for saying that. Some of the comments have been snarky and funny. "Texas quickdraw massacre" had me in stitches.  But the thought of some poor fellow getting hurt or killed because he was incapable of understanding, or just ignorant of, how he is endangering himself has bothered me quite a bit since reading your post yesterday. I've felt this emotion at times over my life and have never been able to describe in words the absolute sadness.

To think loved ones gave him this equipment in good faith to be used for safety, they are going to be stricken with a lot of grief and guilt if they learn it was used improperly and contributed to injury or loss of his life. It would be an absolute tragedy in its own right, and even more fucked up knowing that a lot of folks here are enjoying themselves at the expense of his misforunte. 

Is there any way locals could verify if this guy is all there? Maybe by getting in touch with his family if he's difficult to speak with directly? Are there any outing clubs he might get instruction from, or a guide or group of knowledgable climbers who would be willing to help him out? I don't live anywhere near Texas, so unfortunately there isn't a whole lot I can do in person, but if there is any way I could be of help please let me know via PM here.

I bet the guy climbs 5.14 and this is all a big real-life troll on his part.  How funny would that be?

probably like that freestyle  Olympian from maine who skis in jeans and acts like a total goober..   lots of folks seem to be on their high horse feeling all superior. everyone likes to act tough. no one seems to really give a shit about being helpful or even decent.