Large Groups During COVID

I want to preface this by saying that there is nothing wrong with getting out and climbing, and there is nothing wrong with climbing in another state...as long as it is done with some discretion and judgement

Unfortunately, the last four times that I got out, at not usually terribly busy crags, each time we ran into large out of state groups, ranging from 7 to 12 individuals, and each time from a major COVID outbreak hotspot. Even worse, instead of spreading out, these groups always seemed to roll up as a unit at an already occupied belay area, dropping their crap everywhere, and generally milling around with zero heed to any type of social distancing from others already present.

Granted, I already find giant poses kind of annoying, but in this day and age they are also pretty irresponsible and inconsiderate of others. There really is nothing wrong with climbing in groups of two or three, or at the very least, if you must travel in an entourage, break the group up and give others distance. At the very least, it’ll make others in your vicinity feel a little more comfortable, and it’ll keep me from having to repeatedly request personal space and for you to keep your yard sale under control. 

The opposite happened last week here. A group of us, all locals, were at a local cliff and had two guys from out of town throw down their yard sale right in the middle of our group. I mentioned social distancing and they just laughed like its all a joke.

I think if people are going to be relaxed about the pandemic they could at least think about how contact tracing works. I probably should have asked for their names?

I’ve been able to manage the distancing pretty well, but it’s super annoying when a group posts up right next to you when there’s space at the crag to distance. We aren’t climbing with masks, but the belayer usually has one on or handy - we figure it’s a good social cue that we are trying to distance at least.

Please consider others who might have vulnerable folks at home or who are vulnerable themselves. If I’m wearing a mask, odds are high that I’m concerned about Covid. Please respect that and stay out of my space. I find other areas to climb if it’s crowded, unfortunately many others don’t seem to care, and if we are actively climbing it’s not like we can remove ourselves from the situation at that moment. 

ErikaNWwrote: I’ve been able to manage the distancing pretty well, but it’s super annoying when a group posts up right next to you when there’s space at the crag to distance. We aren’t climbing with masks, but the belayer usually has one on or handy - we figure it’s a good social cue that we are trying to distance at least.

Please consider others who might have vulnerable folks at home or who are vulnerable themselves. If I’m wearing a mask, odds are high that I’m concerned about Covid. Please respect that and stay out of my space. I find other areas to climb if it’s crowded, unfortunately many others don’t seem to care, and if we are actively climbing it’s not like we can remove ourselves from the situation at that moment. 

Erika, if you were there first, you should not have to move just because someone decides to bring 10 of their closest friends along. That is the point. 

If you don't like big groups than don't climb at popular crags.... If you are at a popular crag and everyone is in groups of two, you will arrive at a large group of people....

Gumby boy kingwrote: If you don't like big groups than don't climb at popular crags.... If you are at a popular crag and everyone is in groups of two, you will arrive at a large group of people....

And why does one need to roll up as part of a large group? Especially during a pandemic? Let me give you a real life example. Remote canyon, three parties of 2, one party of 3, and a group of 10. A smallish belay platform with four routes is occupied by a total of 4 people in two groups. Posse rolls up, dumps their shit everywhere, and starts roping up for one of the remaining routes. Are you saying that the four individuals that were there first need to leave because a big group shows up?  That is some entitled shit. 

Frank Steinwrote:

Erika, if you were there first, you should not have to move just because someone decides to bring 10 of their closest friends along. That is the point. 

Agreed! Last time this happened we had already been climbing for awhile and were finishing up our last pitch. I actually called down to this group that set up right next to my masked belayer (I tend to be a little more direct and outspoken - ha ha) and asked if they could just wait until I cleaned the route since we are trying to social distance. They seemed pretty clueless and very surprised by the request.

I’ve left the crag several times rather than deal with the crowds that showed up after us - it’s not right to have to do that, but what else can we do? I really don’t want to get into a big confrontation or be a jerk about it. I also recognize that other people want to climb too, and maybe they don’t know the more obscure areas. I do go obscure or long approach when I can.

I’ve also been seeing a LOT of what appear to be large meet-up groups recently. 

Frank Steinwrote:

And why does one need to roll up as part of a large group? Especially during a pandemic? Let me give you a real life example. Remote canyon, three parties of 2, one party of 3, and a group of 10. A smallish belay platform with four routes is occupied by a total of 4 people in two groups. Posse rolls up, dumps their shit everywhere, and starts roping up for one of the remaining routes. Are you saying that the four individuals that were there first need to leave because a big group shows up?  That is some entitled shit. 

doesn't sound very remote to me....

: as the large group roles up start coughing and complain of nausea/headache and shortness of breath.

Carolinawrote: Pro tip: as the large group roles up start coughing and complain of nausea/headache and shortness of breath.

That's funny!

Also, you could say very loudly, "I wonder if I caught something at that huge pool party?"

Frank Steinwrote:

And why does one need to roll up as part of a large group? 

IMO I think it all boils down to what you CAN do, and what you SHOULD do.  Reasons like valuing the social aspect of climbing above all, viewing a crag/base/route area as "theirs", or simply having a diminished sense of boundaries contributes to those situations.  You take a risk by going out, especially consistently busy crags, but rolling 10 deep is pushing it for sure.  Not to mention those that crowd in cluelessly.

Gumby boy kingwrote:

doesn't sound very remote to me....

Even if it was a crowded crag, which it is not, you still haven’t explained why people need to be climbing in posses right now. (Since you are taking this side of the argument)

This is one advantage to being a dinky old lady. I've simply yelled at people, no bones about it, when they are doing something blatantly wrong. Not yet, for covid, but I have otherwise. I've also been nice (ish) about it, but firm. The safety of myself and my climber override your whatever.

Best, Helen

Frank Steinwrote:

Even if it was a crowded crag, which it is not, you still haven’t explained why people need to be climbing in posses right now. (Since you are taking this side of the argument)

You are assuming I am taking this side of the argument. All I said was if you don't like crowded crags go somewhere remote. You aren't going to change peoples actions by posting some shit on MP.

Frank Steinwrote:

And why does one need to roll up as part of a large group? Especially during a pandemic? Let me give you a real life example. Remote canyon, three parties of 2, one party of 3, and a group of 10. A smallish belay platform with four routes is occupied by a total of 4 people in two groups. Posse rolls up, dumps their shit everywhere, and starts roping up for one of the remaining routes. Are you saying that the four individuals that were there first need to leave because a big group shows up?  That is some entitled shit. 

Hm, three parties of 2 and one party of 3 sounds like a posse to me. Why were you still there before another posse rolled in?

Fehim Hasecicwrote:

Hm, three parties of 2 and one party of 3 sounds like a posse to me. Why were you still there before another posse rolled in?

That is in an entire canyon with over 200 routes. I see nothing wrong with climbing if done discretely. 9 folks spread out over an entire canyon in four distinct parties hardly qualifies as a posse. A single group of 10 rolling up to an occupied belay platform probably qualifies as a posse. 

I don't recall where I heard the following quote but it's by far the best way to handle this. I'm paraphrasing and adding a little here but the message remains the same. Personal responsibility.

If you decide to break quarantine and go out into the public amidst the pandemic and you catch COVID it's your fault. That goes for everybody, everywhere, all the time (unless there's laws passed enforcing quarantine). You cannot control other people. If you are so worried about catching it then stay home, or expect to encounter groups of people who don't share your opinion or give a shit about where you draw the line. If there's too many people around for your personal liking, then leave. There's no dibbs, there's no "we were here first", there's no "you can't climb here because I say the crag limit has been met." You have the right to leave.

I doubt this concept gains any traction because personal responsibility is almost completely lost on society these days.

JSchultzwrote: I don't recall where I heard the following quote but it's by far the best way to handle this. I'm paraphrasing and adding a little here but the message remains the same. Personal responsibility.

If you decide to break quarantine and go out into the public amidst the pandemic and you catch COVID it's your fault. That goes for everybody, everywhere, all the time (unless there's laws passed enforcing quarantine). You cannot control other people. If you are so worried about catching it then stay home, or expect to encounter groups of people who don't share your opinion or give a shit about where you draw the line. If there's too many people around for your personal liking, then leave. There's no dibbs, there's no "we were here first", there's no "you can't climb here because I say the crag limit has been met." You have the right to leave.

I doubt this concept gains any traction because personal responsibility is almost completely lost on society these days.

Except you are blithely ignoring the invisible carriers...who give this to someone...who is also an invisible carrier. None of the people dying in assisted care facilities are guilty of abandoning "personal responsibility". 

Selfishness cubed.

H.

Interesting point of view Schultz, but I would really rally around mutual cooperation, rather than rugged individualism. I think as a community of people, we've gotta lessen group sizes/crowds. That means both sides need to figure out what best serves everyone. I know, I know, it goes against how Americans think and act. Perhaps we need to reevaluate that.

FrankPSwrote:

That's funny!

Also, you could say very loudly, "I wonder if I caught something at that huge pool party?"

Or that Trump rally.