New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #11

Brandt Allen wrote: If I'm out climbing for many hours in the sun (or riding a camel through the Arabian Desert), I'll cover myself in loose, light colored clothing. The strategy I've developed after four decades here in JT is to climb for a few hours in the morning or evening, following the shade around as best I can, wearing shorts and T-shirts, drinking lots of water before, during, and after climbing, then retreating home to my seat under the swamp cooler vent.

This.

Except to add a nice cold beer added to that seat under the swamp...  
And you can't really make beer without water.

Lori Milas wrote:

Another thing is determining what 'early' is.  I'm thinking early at this juncture might be more like 6.  It was 80 degrees and rapidly rising at 8:30 a.m.  I still have not experimented with late afternoon heat. 

If you want to maximize your climbing time, you should be rolling either just before or right at sunup to get the good west-facing routes.
If you miss the window, then you wait until mid-late afternoon and hit the east-facing stuff.

I should add... some days it seems like EVERYTHING is in the sun in the summer, and EVERYTHING is in the shade in the winter.

Edit: We've climbed every month of the year in JT and it's never too bad, but there are exceptions. Couple years ago, we hit the west side of the Old Woman for the requisite lap on Double Cross, etc. And it was just TOO F-ING HOT. I got to the top of Dogleg and just sat there and ran sweat the entire time my wife was climbing. Called it a day. Sometimes, even the shade isn't going to work, but you'll get used to knowing when that is, or you'll give it a shot like we did and decide maybe not today.

Sometimes the variable is actually humidity. When those tropical storms cross over Baja and up the sea of Cortez only to crap out and leave the SoCal deserts with 90% humidity for a couple days. 

Greg Opland wrote:

If you want to maximize your climbing time, you should be rolling either just before or right at sunup to get the good west-facing routes.
If you miss the window, then you wait until mid-late afternoon and hit the east-facing stuff.

I should add... some days it seems like EVERYTHING is in the sun in the summer, and EVERYTHING is in the shade in the winter.

Edit: We've climbed every month of the year in JT and it's never too bad, but there are exceptions. Couple years ago, we hit the west side of the Old Woman for the requisite lap on Double Cross, etc. And it was just TOO F-ING HOT. I got to the top of Dogleg and just sat there and ran sweat the entire time my wife was climbing. Called it a day. Sometimes, even the shade isn't going to work, but you'll get used to knowing when that is, or you'll give it a shot like we did and decide maybe not today.

A minor point, but I seem to remember that Bob carries a special satchel with him... I wish I had ever asked what's in it.  But I do know he has retrieved damp kerchiefs that were frozen and put into some kind of plastic bag... to hand off when it gets hot.  I think I wore these around my neck.  Oh, and also a mister... a spray bottle, to spray down during the hottest part of a day. It bought a little more time.  

And I like your EDIT.  Good lesson to learn now, rather than later... when to fold 'em.  

During the summer at Joshua Tree, I've always preferred the late afternoon/evening sessions. It only gets cooler, and the evening comes on softly, often accompanied by great sunsets, especially during thunderstorm days. If it's not too windy, the day ends with bats cavorting in the twilight hunting insects. In a morning session you're looking at shrinking shade, then blasted by the sun as it peeks over the top of the crag, followed by blast furnace heat on the walk back to the car. My general rule is that over 95 for the high temp it'll be uncomfortable even in the shade.

Lori Milas wrote:

A minor point, but I seem to remember that Bob carries a special satchel with him... I wish I had ever asked what's in it.  But I do know he has retrieved damp kerchiefs that were frozen and put into some kind of plastic bag... to hand off when it gets hot.  I think I wore these around my neck.  Oh, and also a mister... a spray bottle, to spray down during the hottest part of a day. It bought a little more time.  

And I like your EDIT.  Good lesson to learn now, rather than later... when to fold 'em.  

If your hair is long enough for a braid, soak the braid down with water. Cools off the back of your neck for awhile, at least. Similar to the kerchief idea. Or, just wet your head, neck, and back side of the t-shirt. 

Best, Helen (wasting time in the visitor center shade at City! My friend arrives at 6. It's TOASTY here, but still doable)

Hey, what do you peeps think of salt/electrolyte tablets when you know you'll be in danger of dehydrating? That's not just heat, for me, it's also elevation. Just the added 4,000ft here is noticeable for me.

Lori..... this is all funny to read. Most of US learned these lessons so long ago- it’s now almost second nature.      

Long pants- really needed if going hard at leading your project. Dickeys at one time made “roofers pants”- And “roofers shorts”-double or triple butt and knee layers. You could slide a bit without skin loss, and they lasted. But alas they have discontinued. (Note to clothing mfg, stop it with flimsy $80 pants and shorts.)

6 am is not exactly early, if you’re at your climb, OK.

When walking- turn around and look. Remember what you see. Or take a picture. Especially when you walk down into a valley- look back and remember “I came that way”....
And look for the faint track on rocks made from boots- they do make the surface smoother.

Maybe get a guide to show you how to AID.    
You get to test your placements and you know what’s bomber and what’s marginal. You get to clean a bunch of placements- very important if you’re going to become a valued follower- get all that expensive gear out- fast.

Finally- I learned about heat stroke in Phoenix last weekend. Day 1 I drank a ton of water and felt like a water balloon. Day 2: I hit the wall! Got cramps so bad I couldn’t hold my pen, later my legs stopped going exactly where I wanted them to go. The medic only had IVs but he told me to eat salt- any salt. I bumbed a few gatoraids- they worked immediately. Then I remembered the Pizza cheese from Friday- I tossed 8 paks down and felt better.
I guess you really can remove all the electrolytes from your body fast. 
And if Russ is going to walk around in his thong- I’ll blast out ASAP, just to watch.                                  

Well now, I'm enjoying the adult content on here!

My heart's starting to thud a bit, guess I better dig out those tablets. Maybe buy some Gatorade. Yuck.

OMG!!! I DIDN'T PACK THE COFFEE!

Trip to the store for sure, now!!!!

Didn't find those tablets....carefully packed. Somewhere.

Best, Helen

More—- sometimes it’s just to F hot! Bob is right about late days vs early am. Just bring that headlamp. 
Climbed “Right O’Kelleys” on a very hot humid day. Hit the top and tossed my cookies when getting lowered- I think the heavy breathing really heats you up fast.
And yes going to start bringing “salt” tabs. I discovered “Beachbody” hydrate on Sunday from my kid- it works. 

Re: heat exhaustion/stroke- I ended up in the hospital after an adventure race in IA. It was one of those 95 degree, 75% humidity days and I was not used to that (Colorado girl).  I was so proud of myself for being good about hydrating - went through a bottle of water every hour as planned.

Well... I washed all the electrolytes out because I wasn’t doing salt or sport drink mixes. I didn’t think I was in trouble because I was peeing clear and frequently - and it didn’t hit me until about an hour after we’d finished. It was super scary - I was vomiting, had stopped sweating, and was confused. Nearly passed out in the river. Jim knew where the hospital was because part of the race course had passed it, so he got me there quick. I couldn't handle the heat at all for at least a year after that.

So yes to salt tabs or electrolyte mix. It sneaks up on you and straight water can do more harm than good sometimes.

But Jim and I won the team competition in that race so it was totally worth it. (NOT)

ErikaNW wrote: Re: heat exhaustion/stroke- I ended up in the hospital after an adventure race in IA. It was one of those 95 degree, 75% humidity days and I was not used to that (Colorado girl).  I was so proud of myself for being good about hydrating - went through a bottle of water every hour as planned.

I can't urge everyone enough to be sure they're replacing electrolytes when drinking lots of water and sweating a lot. I worked on a med-mal case years ago where a young athlete came into a hospital with hyponatremia (Google it) and was misdiagnosed with the flu. She ended up brain dead. 

 I was just talking to someone about this route on a local South Australian Facebook page.Thought you might enjoy these two pictures. The one over the ocean was scary, but only a grade 14. It was like starting off inside an egg, climbing through a hole in the shell, and then up the outside of the shell to the top. 

Carl Schneider wrote: I was just talking to someone about this route on a local South Australian Facebook page.Thought you might enjoy these two pictures. The one over the ocean was scary, but only a grade 14. It was like starting off inside an egg, climbing through a hole in the shell, and then up the outside of the shell to the top. 

Carl... wow. That looks really fun!  Is this you in the pics?  A traverse!

Helen... sounds like you are having a blast!  I'm losing track of your ventures.  Who all is there, and how long are you there?  (sorry if I missed a critical post somewhere).

Phylp... Maple Canyon looks like great rock, and something I have never seen.

Re. electrolytes.  Even in normal life I have to replace more than most (diabetes)... but I'm really focusing on this here.  Usually I drop a Nuun tab in my bottle of water, which is great, except they are expensive and invariably congeal in the tube.  But for sure, 1/4 tsp of salt in every liter of water at a minimum.  

  I think this is one nod to aging... thirst is not as reliable as it used to be.  We just have to remember to drink, and try to keep some kind of tally of how much water/liquid we consume by the end of the day.
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Guy, Russ... there is no way to properly thank you for all the help.  I hope Bob also knows that his patient coaching changed my life.  Looking back, I just would have quit if I were here to do this on my own. There's no way to really describe the challenge of starting a venture like rock climbing at this time of life and with no native skills.  As we have discovered, it's about EVERYTHING, not just how to step onto a rock.  

Maybe the biggest surprise right now is that we have to learn how to be rednecks.  I thought Joshua Tree was hippie haven!  Tony is fine with all the personas, I just wasn't prepared.. but when in Rome...   

There's even a big difference being IN the Park, with such care for the environment and OUTSIDE the Park, where quads go wild and hippies 'are not welcome'.  We live just minutes from the Park, and yet my neighbors ask me if I have ever seen "the Monument".  My redneck neighbor (his self-description) tells of growing up here when the place was crime-ridden, meth ridden, and pretty much 'no women' so they  spent their days drinking and playing in the hills.  He could point in any direction and tell me what's back there.  I mean WAY back there.  

Tony is planning some kind of Poker Nights here to which everyone is invited--except me, I guess.  He and the neighbor can talk guns and quads.  We have an Italian priest here, and he's hoping he can get him involved, too, maybe co-cooking pasta.  

He has renamed all the rocks in 'the Monument' ... I don't know if it's intentional, or just the way he hears them.  Intercourse Rock.  Hall of Whores.  But every day he lovingly tells me "Get on back out there, Lori. You can do this."  

I have been thinking of a conversation with Dallas many threads ago, in which he talked about constantly practicing with his rope techniques.  I have ropes strung all over this house.  There is no getting around acquiring some skills here.  I'm hoping this will come with practice... over and  over.  It sure didn't come with long time-lapses in between outings.  I did catch a goof on my rappel setup.. but it would have been so easy not to.  (didn't initially use a locking carabiner)

One last thing... I have not yet seen 'bats cavorting' as Bob describes  nor climbed at sunset.  I'm hoping we can put that on our to-do schedule in the Fall.  And what kind of headlamp???  

I thought it was just a matter of getting acclimated, getting used to the heat or the cold.  Barbara is getting pretty bad.  Anything over 75 she complains about it getting too hot.  But reading about ErikaNW having difficulty after heat exhaustion makes me wonder.

One of tasks at Enchanted Rock in TX was to take the gator to the back trails on hot days and hunt people down that didn't bring sufficient water.  It took only two trips to understand why they do this.  One of the tricks I used to treat mild heat exhaustion was to dappen a cloth and wrap gently around the neck.  The evaporation cloth cooled the arteries.  If you are over heated never dump cold water on your head.  

7 year old Grandson is visiting so we took him climbing on Friction Slab  at Mt. Erie, WA.  

I learned quite a bit from him.  Mostly he just scared the crap out of me.  Flat landers are not aware of cliffs.  Or maybe it's just that he is 7, not sure which.  Didn't take me long to get him into his climbing harness and tethered to me.  He was pretty good about climbing in the gym.  We picked a wall that we remembered as being easy to get to.  Funny how memory is a fickle thing. Sure it was easy, we just rapped to the base and climbed back up.  The top of the ledge was a bit too much for him to get lowered down without company.  So I started trying to recall my lessons on double or assisted rescue rapping.  Decided my memories where a bit iffy so decided to do the scramble.  Hehe, I should have done the assisted rap.  It was an adventurous down climb.   Finally got Grandma below him and me above him with a tether are slowly worked our way down.  Whew!
So Grandma tells him to watch her this is how it's done and she climbs the easy route.  In the mean time he is over by the edge of the cliff looking at the flowers and butterflies.  I am not worried, as he is fully tied in with the rope at this point. So now it his turn. He needed a little boost past the first ledge, While we could reach the top with our hands he could only reach half way, Up and down, back and forth.  He was on rope about an hour, he didn't go very far, but he got a lot of climbing in.


Grandma practically free soloed the route behind him to help him get up.  But he finally made it to the "top", which was about halfway up, the route wandered a bit and we put a redirect in to prevent any rope swing, as far as he was concerned he climbed to the top, Yahooo!!!!


I think he enjoyed exiting the cliff the best.  After observing his lack of skill I had Barbara climb the route and set up a top belay.  He and I then did a simulclimb up the gully on belay.  With Grandma above with the rope and Grandpa below helping with foot and hand holds we made it up that gully in short order.  I think he really enjoyed it, he didn't stop talking about it until we broke out the marsh mellows that night by the campfire.

I now have a much greater respect for parents at the crag.  It takes a lot of work to keep children safe while climbing. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Carl... wow. That looks really fun!  Is this you in the pics?  A traverse!

Yes it's me. These were taken about three or four years ago. The traverse was really silly for a trad climb; you ended up on the ground which seemed really strange... 

Dallas R wrote: I thought it was just a matter of getting acclimated, getting used to the heat or the cold.  Barbara is getting pretty bad.  Anything over 75 she complains about it getting too hot.  But reading about ErikaNW having difficulty after heat exhaustion makes me wonder.
...

There are several common drugs that reduce tolerance for heat.  Some migraine medications and beta blockers for example. May not be applicable here, but I know several people who developed intolerance to heat after being prescribed a new drug.

T

Dallas... what a great grandpa!  (and grandma!)  I love your stories.

This morning I'm grabbing a few last hours with Nelson on some leftover time we had scheduled from before COVID.  I think it's time to face Double Cross again, early while Old Woman is still in shade... and maybe with a different attitude.  The first try 18 months ago left a bad taste... I made it to the top, but it was too much struggle.  Perhaps this morning we can just play, I can just see if there's a way to make it flow.  Sometimes it feels like there's undo pressure, and it comes from no one but myself.  So... a play date.  (This was Nelson coaching after my first attempt. I wouldn't try it again.)

Nice video Lori! Looks like fun!

Lori Milas wrote: Dallas... what a great grandpa!  (and grandma!)  I love your stories.

This morning I'm grabbing a few last hours with Nelson on some leftover time we had scheduled from before COVID.  I think it's time to face Double Cross again, early while Old Woman is still in shade... and maybe with a different attitude.  The first try 18 months ago left a bad taste... I made it to the top, but it was too much struggle.  Perhaps this morning we can just play, I can just see if there's a way to make it flow.  Sometimes it feels like there's undo pressure, and it comes from no one but myself.  So... a play date.  (This was Nelson coaching after my first attempt. I wouldn't try it again.)

In the last 18 months you've learned a lot. Especially how to properly jam cracks. Have fun. 

How's everyone's fitness right now?  I'm just curious who all has been out on some type of rock and taken it for a spin and if so, how are you feeling about it?  Did you stay strong during COVID, or did you discover that you lost some ground?

I try to have an attitude of curiosity and learning when I climb, or else I would quit forever.  So what I learned this morning is that I really lost a lot of fitness and strength these last months.  Happy to be back on Double Cross... I know some crack technique, but I struggled on some critical moves.  It's only a 5.7.  I even knew by heart the beta... high step to left foothold, fast left hand jam, flag right foot, add right hand jam, and get into that crack.  That core strength needed to adhere to the rock just isn't there (at the present).  I couldn't stick--just wanted to barn door to the right.  

I guess there's no way to know if it's gonna go except to try.  I know Brandt could handle it.    

It's such a humbling sport.  If you have an ego in this it will be crushed.  

The good news is that while I've been out mornings scrambling around and anchor-building... those are solid.  It felt good to get a thumbs-up from Nelson on those.