Help me invent a retractable quickdraw?!

I want a long draw (say 2m long) where it is prehung on a bolt 2m overhead.  You clip the rope through the biner on the draw, then do something(?) and the draw retracts up to the bolt 2m higher and assume a normal length (10cm or whatever) with normal strength at that length.

The motivation here: some clips are scary/impossible through hard sections on a sport route, and this would allow clipping from a low/good hold and allow you to bust through a crux without stopping.

What might work: although klunky, imagine a microtraxion and a 2m piece of static rope.  The micro is on a bungee and held down by a latch (say, a fifi on a lower bolt). You clip through a biner on the micro, release the bungee and the micro slides 2m up the static rope to create an overhead anchor point.

The above idea is probably too klunky to work in practice, but something better engineered could be used?  You gear specialists out there have any ideas?

Wondering why this wasn't included since literally everybody will have the thought...how does a stickclip not solve this exact problem?

Cool idea, yay for creativity, no idea if it'll pan out. When I've had this situation in the past (extremely unoften) I bring up one of them compact stick clips up with me and use it to clip the next bolt, which does what you desire I think.

John RBwrote: I want a long draw (say 2m long) where it is prehung on a bolt 2m overhead.  You clip the rope through the biner on the draw, then do something(?) and the draw retracts up to the bolt 2m higher and assume a normal length (10cm or whatever) with normal strength at that length.

The motivation here: some clips are scary/impossible through hard sections on a sport route, and this would allow clipping from a low/good hold and allow you to bust through a crux without stopping.

What might work: although klunky, imagine a microtraxion and a 2m piece of static rope.  The micro is on a bungee and held down by a latch (say, a fifi on a lower bolt). You clip through a biner on the micro, release the bungee and the micro slides 2m up the static rope to create an overhead anchor point.

The above idea is probably too klunky to work in practice, but something better engineered could be used?  You gear specialists out there have any ideas?

The solution is called a stick clip. 

T Legowrote: Wondering why this wasn't included since literally everybody will have the thought...how does a stickclip not solve this exact problem?

Ah, I think he's talking about clipping the "n-th" bolt high up on a climb, while you're hanging onto a hold that's a grade or so at,or above, your limit.

Did anyone mention stick clip???

Robert Hallwrote:

Ah, I think he's talking about clipping the "n-th" bolt high up on a climb, while you're hanging onto a hold that's a grade or so at,or above, your limit.

It’s hard to imagine that using a 2 meter long draw to clip the next bolt will be any easier to do while hanging on a hold than using a stick clip. 

After reading the post several times, I think the OP wants a device that can be prehung that you clip low and then will take up the slack as you move past it.

My initial thought was a long draw and a short draw but you said you want it to automatically (on a bungee) make your anchor point higher without having to make the clip.

What you are looking for here.... is called top roping....sorry to be that guy....

This is not a stickclip solution exactly. The OP is thinking more like basically an adjustable daisy used as a quickdraw. I only know of adjustable daisies that are rated for body weight, though.

Em Coswrote:

It’s hard to imagine that using a 2 meter long draw to clip the next bolt will be any easier to do while hanging on a hold than using a stick clip. 

The reguest is for  "where it is prehung on a bolt 2m overhead "

Pnelsonwrote: This is not a stickclip solution exactly. The OP is thinking more like basically an adjustable daisy used as a quickdraw. I only know of adjustable daisies that are rated for body weight, though.

I think I understand now. 

Why not hang two quickdraws off the bolt, one extended and one normal? When you get closer to the bolt itself, clip into the shorter draw (and unclip the other if you want). 

Robert Hallwrote:

The reguest is for  "where it is prehung on a bolt 2m overhead "

I missed that. So if you have access to the bolt to prehang a draw, why not just use a regular draw and preclip the rope? 

Kong  Panic quickdraw. Then clip a regular qd into the same bolt of you want to shorten it up.

Sorry I wasn't super clear in the OP.

Imagine this: you're hanging on a jug at bolt 5.  You clip bolt 5.  You now have a 14-move crux sequence where there's no way you can let go to clip bolt 6, yet bolt 6 is in the middle of the sequence.  You cannot skip bolt 6 since you will deck if you fall above bolt 6.  

So now, imagine this: you are hanging on a jug at bolt 5, which is clipped.  A retractable draw is also within reach, attached to bolt 6.  You clip that as well, and unlatch the draw.  It zips up to bolt 6, so you are now free to climb through the 14-move crux and the fall is safe.

A stick clip is too ungainly to allow you to maneuver with one hand without weighting the rope.  I want something that works within a few seconds and can be operated with one hand.

I want to design such a system.  I have something that will work but it's ugly and overly complicated.  And please don't say "there are no climbs like this." There are a lot of climbs like this... Ondra has even talked about this problem (where climbs get so hard you can't clip bolts anymore).  And top-roping does not work for super steep climbs... it's just not safe to fall low on the route with a TR on the top anchor... you'd just hit the ground.

Buy a petzl connect adjust. Not sure if something like that is fall rated though 

Sometimes you just need to get stronger or pick a different climb.

Or up your risk tolerance

John RBwrote: I want to design such a system.  I have something that will work but it's ugly and overly complicated.  And please don't say "there are no climbs like this." There are a lot of climbs like this... Ondra has even talked about this problem (where climbs get so hard you can't clip bolts anymore).  And top-roping does not work for super steep climbs... it's just not safe to fall low on the route with a TR on the top anchor... you'd just hit the ground.

What's your overly complicated system? I think what can work w/o much specialty equipment is what PNelson has more or less suggested, but you clip the other end of the daisy back onto bolt 5, like what you'd do in a lead solo scenario, the daisy buckle usually can't support the force of a fall (and hopefully, is designed to slip, not break, with excessive force), but the sling/rope material should.

Edited to add: this all smells like top-roping, and I hate to say it, just get a TR send & call it good.

I was interested in a draw that would do the exact opposite ​. In the scenario that I'd like it to work, the short draw is clipped after a ledge, and the draw holds the rope close to the wall, so that if you fall from the next bolt, you dont get flossed. Once you're out of that range, a string could be pulled by the belayer to extend the draw to reduce the rope drag over the ledge.

I think your design would be much more complicated than mine. You could just have a releasable buckle for mine, where as you would need a retractable pull cord/dog bone that remains fully rated when retracted. Sounds difficult to make, but also sounds like itd end up being extremely expensive to buy as a consumer.  My first thought was some sort of crank, but it would have to be spring loaded to snap up by itself. It could also be a "tape measure" type thing that auto locks when it retracts.

Kong seems to be the only company making obscure devices, so maybe contact them.

caughtinside wrote: People have solved this problem by hanging a very long sling and then a short draw on the same bolt, so you effectively clip the same bolt twice, once very low and then later in the normal spot. I don’t think I’ve seen a 2 meter extension before, but it could be done

And clip the short one at your waist so the effort truly is minimal

John RBwrote: Sorry I wasn't super clear in the OP.

Imagine this: you're hanging on a jug at bolt 5.  You clip bolt 5.  You now have a 14-move crux sequence where there's no way you can let go to clip bolt 6, yet bolt 6 is in the middle of the sequence.  You cannot skip bolt 6 since you will deck if you fall above bolt 6.  

So now, imagine this: you are hanging on a jug at bolt 5, which is clipped.  A retractable draw is also within reach, attached to bolt 6.  You clip that as well, and unlatch the draw.  It zips up to bolt 6, so you are now free to climb through the 14-move crux and the fall is safe.

1. Maybe it's just a poor bolting job?
2. How did the FA do it?
3. Maybe work up to the route on easier stuff first?

A stick clip is too ungainly to allow you to maneuver with one hand without weighting the rope.  I want something that works within a few seconds and can be operated with one hand.

Yes, but since you're already aiding the route.....

And please don't say "there are no climbs like this." There are a lot of climbs like this...

Almost any climb can be like that if you are absolutely pegged and at your limit for that climb.

Ondra has even talked about this problem (where climbs get so hard you can't clip bolts anymore). 

Isn't that why some routes have waited 10 and 20 years for the second ascent?

Phil Lauffenwrote:

And clip the short one at your waist so the effort truly is minimal

There are plenty of routes that have continuous sections where hanging off of 1 hand anywhere thru a section is overly strenuous. John is trying to devise a method to not take a hand off in those scenarios. Merely having an extended draw does not help.

Come on, eng-nerd, offer a real solution to a (mostly) theoretical problem here!!