2 Pro Rapping Tips

Hope for Movementwrote:

Just some clarification - this is for 1 rope (60+meters) and rap stations 30m or less appart. You are saying for both you and Jordan to rap down to the occupied anchor, fix one end and one of you starts rapping on that fixed end as slack is being generated as your partner pulls the rope. So for a short time, there will be all 4 of you at that anchor (unless one from the other party is climbing).

No, if you have 4 extra m on the one end that you fixed, you can rap 2 m down on that fixed end, so that you're out of everyone's way. I think that's what Mark was saying about getting out of there.

Now you can rap to either the next set of anchors at 30m, or the full 60m because you are rapping on a single-strand. If that next anchor is occupied, there is a decision to make - it might be best to stop there and re-set up because the upper party is going to drop the rope and if it is straight above the anchor that is occupied, you might not want to just drop the rope this paty. I guess that is a discussion to have with them as the first rapper assesses the situation...

What exactly are you worried about skipping the occupied anchor? I would think the party would appreciate you staying out of there way.

ScoJowrote: No, if you have 4 extra m on the one end that you fixed, you can rap 2 m down on that fixed end, so that you're out of everyone's way. I think that's what Mark was saying about getting out of there.

I'm fairly inexperienced with rapping long routes and just trying to understand this. So you would basically have a big loop of slack from the fixed end (lower anchor) to the top anchor? And once the second person raps down they start pulling the rope and adding to that slack until the rope is pulled free?

Alejandro, perfect, yes

i had reached my posting limit for the day yesterday and couldn’t post MIT m more until now. 

ScoJowrote: No, if you have 4 extra m on the one end that you fixed, you can rap 2 m down on that fixed end, so that you're out of everyone's way. I think that's what Mark was saying about getting out of there.

What exactly are you worried about skipping the occupied anchor? I would think the party would appreciate you staying out of there way.

^^Worried about the rope falling past the party and potentially hitting them, I think. Not really any different than if you stopped at the anchor with the party and pulled the rope. Either way that party is going to have a falling rope to deal with. Unless your SOP would be to ask their permission to pull your rope and then wait until they said it was okay. Personally, unless the falling rope has a high likelihood of hitting the leader and they are on hard/dangerous terrain I would be unlikely to respect a request that leaves me sitting at an anchor twiddling my thumbs and making everyone involved less comfortable. 

Cool, thanks Mark.

okay, please, you are all making this far more complicated than this has to be.

we are trying to rap through and anchor with a party at it. We want them to anchor our rope so that we may get past them ASAP.

jordan fixes the rope and then drops down a bit on it to get out of the way. When I get to the anchor. I start pulling the rope and Jordan takes off. Now that we have a full rope to rap, (we are on a 60 and have been doing 30m raps) Jordan can past the next anchor and go to the one below that.

When we are both secure on the lower anchor (and have alerted all parties possibly involved that a rope will shortly be coming down) the party above unties our rope and drops (drops, throws, let’s go of, releases...) our rope.

Again, please, this is not rocket science. Draw a little picture of it! 

Mark Hudonwrote: okay, please, you are all making this far more complicated than this has to be.

we are trying to rap through and anchor with a party at it. We want them to anchor our rope so that we may get past them ASAP.

jordan fixes the rope and then drops down a bit on it to get out of the way. When I get to the anchor. I start pulling the rope and Jordan takes off. Now that we have a full rope to rap, (we are on a 60 and have been doing 30m raps) Jordan can past the next anchor and go to the one below that.

When we are both secure on the lower anchor (and have alerted all parties possibly involved that a rope will shortly be coming down) the party above unties our rope and drops (drops, throws, let’s go of, releases...) our rope.

Again, please, this is not rocket science. Draw a little picture of it! 

This thread is an absolutely spot-on illustration of how this kind of maneuver gets botched. Overcomplicating things while sitting at a desk...imagine how it's gonna be trying to walk someone through this, 300' off the deck.

Excellent tip. Thank you!

Pardon my ignorance, but is there any concern about pulling the rope from the higher anchor without a stopper knot being present on the full rope rap?

ScoJowrote: No, if you have 4 extra m on the one end that you fixed, you can rap 2 m down on that fixed end, so that you're out of everyone's way. I think that's what Mark was saying about getting out of there.

What exactly are you worried about skipping the occupied anchor? I would think the party would appreciate you staying out of there way.

The original description was not clear and was ambiguous. I was clarifying some of what was lacking in the original description, not asking a question. The person rapping first, after the rope is fixed can descend a bit, then keep going as soon at the partner reaches the anchor and starts pulling the rope as more free rope comes down. I've done similar, asking for the people to throw my rope down, but I'm not sure I have ever started the rap before my partner reached the anchor. Good Pro tip.

Not that 'worried' about a party at the intermediate anchor in most cases, but if the rope is to come down on top of them, your asking another party above to throw your rope down onto yet another party... Not a problem in most cases, but surely in some. I was just trying to clarify the original description. 

John Yuwrote: Pardon my ignorance, but is there any concern about pulling the rope from the higher anchor without a stopper knot being present on the full rope rap?

The phrasing of your question is confusing, to me at least. Do you mean a knot to prevent you from just fully dropping the rope to the ground? If that's what you're asking, it shouldn't be a concern because you would've already tied the other end off (or begun threading) at the lower anchor when you arrived. 

X Cwrote:

The phrasing of your question is confusing, to me at least. Do you mean a knot to prevent you from just fully dropping the rope to the ground? If that's what you're asking, it shouldn't be a concern because you would've already tied the other end off (or begun threading) at the lower anchor when you arrived. 

I assume he means a knot to prevent rapping off the end.

X Cwrote:

The phrasing of your question is confusing, to me at least. Do you mean a knot to prevent you from just fully dropping the rope to the ground? If that's what you're asking, it shouldn't be a concern because you would've already tied the other end off (or begun threading) at the lower anchor when you arrived. 

With this method, 1 end will always be fixed to an anchor, so you can't drop it. Maybe he is referring to tying a stopper knot so the 1st rapper doesn't rap off the end?

X Cwrote:

The phrasing of your question is confusing, to me at least. Do you mean a knot to prevent you from just fully dropping the rope to the ground? If that's what you're asking, it shouldn't be a concern because you would've already tied the other end off (or begun threading) at the lower anchor when you arrived. 

Yeah I was referring to a stopper knot. What I meant is, if you already tied off the other end to the lower anchor with the other parties biners at the anchor. You would have to pull your rope through the higher anchors which would require untying the previous stopper knot at the ends of the rope so your rope doesn't get stuck on the higher anchor and somehow re-tie it on the full rap if desired.

John Yuwrote:

Yeah I was referring to a stopper knot. What I meant is, if you already tied off the other end to the lower anchor with the other parties biners at the anchor. You would have to pull your rope through the higher anchors which would require untying the previous stopper knot at the ends of the rope so your rope doesn't get stuck on the higher anchor and somehow re-tie it on the full rap if desired.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I would imagine that stopper knots are not being used in this scenario. Either you are rapping 30 or so meters on a much longer rope, or you probably (or should) know that you'll make it to the next anchor down. 

Sam Salawrote:

This thread is an absolutely spot-on illustration of how this kind of maneuver gets botched. Overcomplicating things while sitting at a desk...imagine how it's gonna be trying to walk someone through this, 300' off the deck.

Yeah, dang, it’s rather disheartening to tell you the truth. 

No, I’m sorry, I’m not going to draw a picture for you. 

X Cwrote:

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I would imagine that stopper knots are not being used in this scenario. Either you are rapping 30 or so meters on a much longer rope, or you probably (or should) know that you'll make it to the next anchor down. 

Ah ok, I had a feeling that was the situation with this. Amazing tip from Mark though.

Did this on Lev 29 last year and it worked perfect. Each belay was stacked with parties and we bypassed half of them and descended the whole route in about 40 min I think.
Used it on stolen chimney when there were 1000 people at the ledge and we didn’t want to have to do the single rope raps down the chimney. Just one long 70m rap to the ground. 

If you don’t think a knot will get stuck, just have the party above unclip an overhand. If you want the ropes free of any knots, rap off a clove hitch or a bowline tied into the fixed hardware

A similar technique at a busy single pitch crag is to have the last person going up take a couple draws from the party behind you and replace your draws. Everybody saves time

I've been involved in something like this when a party bailed on a route with no rap rings.  They could use our anchor to make it 60m to the ground and not leave stuff (bolts no rings no anchor at 30m).  Worked fine but luckily i was just starting the pitch as follower and could relay the call to toss the rope.  Yelling up 60 meters doesn't always work great...

Make sure you have a communication plan and the party who's anchor you are using understands what's happening.  Dont pressure gumbies to do something they are uncomfortable with.

Mark Hudonwrote:

Yeah, dang, it’s rather disheartening to tell you the truth. 

No, I’m sorry, I’m not going to draw a picture for you. 

It’s a simple procedure, and all questions around it can be answered by thinking a bit.

...but dude, you’re witnessing the outcome of “common core” and our products of the public education system. We’re so screwed! Lol!!!