Pull ups vs grade climbed?

Joe Trabucco wrote:

8 proper pull-ups

the term "proper pull-ups" seems to getting into no-true-Scotsman territory.

The definition can be made as strict as needed to make your claim true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

michael sershen wrote:

the term "proper pull-ups" seems to getting into no-true-Scotsman territory.

The definition can be made as strict as needed to make your claim true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Exactly, all these claims about what a "proper pull-up" is are just as arbitrary as every other definition of a pull-up, including the kipping Crossfit pullup. There's nothing inherent that makes one more "proper" than another. The only thing that makes one exercise better than another is whether it actually helps with the activity you are training for. And all these variations probably have the same correlation to climbing ability - a small amount.

hifno wrote:

Exactly, all these claims about what a "proper pull-up" is are just as arbitrary as every other definition of a pull-up, including the kipping Crossfit pullup. There's nothing inherent that makes one more "proper" than another. The only thing that makes one exercise better than another is whether it actually helps with the activity you are training for. And all these variations probably have the same correlation to climbing ability - a small amount.

No 

Come on guys let’s use our heads here. You can very easily use dramatically different muscle groups and momentum to change a lot of things when you are hanging from a bar. This isn’t that complicated. People have given detailed descriptions. Someone please add what intricacies I inevitably miss:

1. Place your hands about shoulder width apart. Palms away from you.
2. hang. All the way.
3. All the way.
4. Don’t move your legs!
5. Pull yourself up until your chest touches the bar
6. Don’t move your legs!
7. Let yourself down in a controlled fashion
8. you have pulled-up! Congratulations
    
   I tried the other day and got 9

C Limenski wrote: 
5. Pull yourself up until your chest touches the bar

You didn't pause for 1 second at the top. Joe says you are disqualified.

C Limenski wrote:7.  Let yourself down in a controlled fashion

Did that eccentric motion take 3-4 seconds? "controlled fashion" is vague, we need high speed video documentation to validate this attempt.

You sir, are no true Scotsman.

Sounds to me like “true Scotsmen” might just need a good ass-whupping...

Mark Pilate wrote: Sounds to me like “true Scotsmen” might just need a good ass-whupping...

Bring it Minnesota.  Wouldn’t be the first time you lose to a Hawkeye ;) 

Joe Trabucco wrote:

No 

Curious exactly which of your climbing achievements lead you to be a good judge of this?

hifno wrote:

Curious exactly which of your climbing achievements lead you to be a good judge of this?

Oh my bad, I forgot to spray before I spoke on pull-ups. 

Joe Trabucco wrote:

Oh my bad, I forgot to spray before I spoke on pull-ups. 

Well considering this is a climbing website on a topic concerning pull-ups vs. grade climbed, then yes, your climbing ability is actually relevant.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Crossfit pullups are dumb as hell. But if this were a Crossfit training website, then they would totally fine. And if this were some arbitrary "super strict pull up" website, then maybe your challenge would have some relevance.

hifno wrote:

Well considering this is a climbing website on a topic concerning pull-ups vs. grade climbed, then yes, your climbing ability is actually relevant.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Crossfit pullups are dumb as hell. But if this were a Crossfit training website, then they would totally fine. And if this were some arbitrary "super strict pull up" website, then maybe your challenge would have some relevance.

Auden Alsop wrote:

I’ve climbed V10 and can’t hang one arm period on a 20mm edge at bodyweight. Will Anglin has stated he’s done 3 V13s in one week before while also unable to hang on a 20mm edge (one arm). I can’t do a one arm pull-up either.

Yeah I made another post and the metric is just hang one arm. Do you hangboard at all? Part of it I am sure is just mental conditioning, like physiologically it takes 6 weeks to generally start seeing muscular benefits yet many people report the hangboard has helped in the first two weeks. How do you train mostly? 

Side note: Yesterday I apparently hit the benchmark for v8 so I guess once I can actually boulder maybe I will send harder. 

Auden Alsop wrote:

I’ve climbed V10 and can’t hang one arm period on a 20mm edge at bodyweight. Will Anglin has stated he’s done 3 V13s in one week before while also unable to hang on a 20mm edge (one arm). I can’t do a one arm pull-up either.

I think the 20mm one had hang and the one arm pull up means that you should be able to climb almost all V10s.  If you are doing the one arms off the 20mm edge then you probably are doing most V12s.

There is a big difference between I sent a V10 and being a solid V10 climber.   This is especial true for the tall climbers. I have been on more than a few problems/routes where a particular move is significantly easier if you can reach the next good hold from a good foot. There are also a lot of moves where the climb is easier if you can use a high foot that the tall might find too high. The tall on average are also heavier so when they have to use the same holds the movement will require more strength. If you find yourself on the extreme of the height spectrum especial in bouldering grades get wonky fast.

Auden Alsop wrote:

I hangboard a lot. 3-4 times a week normally, I can hang 10 seconds on a 19mm edge with bodyweight + 65% at max. I train a lot on gym boulders and steep boards (tension, spray, moon). I also campused a couple times per week when the gym was open. I’ve learned that metrics mean next to nothing with regards to climbing outdoors. I can barely climb 9s in my gym, but have sent 3 v9 and up boulders outside, all quickly. Hangboard and climb (boulder!!) a bunch would be my suggestion for training..

So for a one hand hang you would be close to body weight.  It is not a divide by 2 function of your two hand hang.  I am very similar to your two hand hang and am just over 90% of body weight on the one hand hang. Per what I have read this would make us  solid in the V8-V9 range. This is accurate for me and  from looking at your tick list this seams accurate for you as well. I know it is not perfect but it is a good correlation. 

Joe Trabucco wrote: Bet no one on this thread can do 10x proper and controlled pull-ups. Bet.  

Care to make an actual wager?  I bet I can do one set of 10 proper and controlled pull-ups, by your definition, from the jugs of a hangboard, and post video proof, by 10pm Eastern on May 25, 2020.  I ask that if you have reasonable objections to the video/form/technique/etc, I be given 36 hours to post a second attempt to meet your specifications.  In the case of a dispute, we each post "Like this post if you think I won the bet" in this thread, and whoever gets more votes within 48 hours, wins.  Loser makes a donation to the charity of the winner's choice and posts a screenshot of the confirmation email to this thread.  I'd be comfortable staking any amount of your choice up to $1,000 (I'd be willing to bet more, but this format leaves open the possibility of cheating by, say, account spamming.  For my part, I promise to be honorable).  Let me know!

Isaac Steinbrunner wrote:

Care to make an actual wager?  I bet I can do one set of 10 proper and controlled pull-ups, by your definition, from the jugs of a hangboard, and post video proof, by 10pm Eastern on May 25, 2020.  I ask that if you have reasonable objections to the video/form/technique/etc, I be given 36 hours to post a second attempt to meet your specifications.  In the case of a dispute, we each post "Like this post if you think I won the bet" in this thread, and whoever gets more votes within 48 hours, wins.  Loser makes a donation to the charity of the winner's choice and posts a screenshot of the confirmation email to this thread.  I'd be comfortable staking any amount of your choice up to $1,000 (I'd be willing to bet more, but this format leaves open the possibility of cheating by, say, account spamming.  For my part, I promise to be honorable).  Let me know!

i so second this idea...

Leron wrote:

So for a one hand hang you would be close to body weight.  It is not a divide by 2 function of your two hand hang.  I am very similar to your two hand hang and am just over 90% of body weight on the one hand hang. Per what I have read this would make us  solid in the V8-V9 range. This is accurate for me and  from looking at your tick list this seams accurate for you as well. I know it is not perfect but it is a good correlation. 

For me there really isn't much difference, I can hang about twice the weight on two hands as I can on one. All-time records are about 164% of body weight on two hands and 83% for one hand, so if there's a big difference, that's actually pretty interesting to me, and points to a point of failure that isn't the fingers, but bigger stabilizing muscles or some other aspect of your overall form. For the record I've done one outdoor V9 and several V8's (I don't tick 98% of what I climb).

Auden Alsop wrote:

I hangboard a lot. 3-4 times a week normally, I can hang 10 seconds on a 19mm edge with bodyweight + 65% at max. I train a lot on gym boulders and steep boards (tension, spray, moon). I also campused a couple times per week when the gym was open. I’ve learned that metrics mean next to nothing with regards to climbing outdoors. I can barely climb 9s in my gym, but have sent 3 v9 and up boulders outside, all quickly. Hangboard and climb (boulder!!) a bunch would be my suggestion for training..

Good to know. Yeah I hardly bouldered last year or climbed in the gym, just sport climbed outside which didn't help my bouldering or actual redpointing that much but I climbed a lot at least and onsight way harder than I ever have! Hopefully my new commitment to hangboarding and moonboarding (when the gym was open) will yield better outdoor results but having a pad party is kinda hard right now. 

Isaac Steinbrunner wrote:

Care to make an actual wager?  I bet I can do one set of 10 proper and controlled pull-ups, by your definition, from the jugs of a hangboard, and post video proof, by 10pm Eastern on May 25, 2020.  I ask that if you have reasonable objections to the video/form/technique/etc, I be given 36 hours to post a second attempt to meet your specifications.  In the case of a dispute, we each post "Like this post if you think I won the bet" in this thread, and whoever gets more votes within 48 hours, wins.  Loser makes a donation to the charity of the winner's choice and posts a screenshot of the confirmation email to this thread.  I'd be comfortable staking any amount of your choice up to $1,000 (I'd be willing to bet more, but this format leaves open the possibility of cheating by, say, account spamming.  For my part, I promise to be honorable).  Let me know!

LOLZ, trabucco couldn't round up 10 bucks if his life depended on it, much less 1000.

slim wrote:

LOLZ, trabucco couldn't round up 10 bucks if his life depended on it, much less 1000.

I mean, what does he want to bet then? I need a Moonboard built in the garage...