since when is it good to hide knowledge of climbing areas from people just because you think its getting too crowded?
Its always been good. Documenting and cataloging every rock, every route, forever? That's wrong headed. There is no route entitlement. Some places deserve obscurity and even to be forgotten, if for no other reason than to keep them from being overrun and trampled. But there are plenty of other reasons too. First ascent workers need to be far more discerning about what they are willing to disclose. The best policy, in my opinion, is to withhold everything and make exceptions only after great consideration and ample time.
Lastly, when it comes to new routing, the few do get to decide for the many. That's just the way it is.
This whole thing is headed to hell I a hand basket I say. The only way to find new places is to have the internet? Get a life.
Subserviate yourself! That’s how all of us got to be climbers. We watched and respectfully followed our elders. We made it our life, and we became climbers through hard work, dedication, exploration, adventure, and effort. We were meek, we were mild, it took us years to become full fledged members, and now we’re strong, in a weak sort of way. We don’t owe you scratch, and giving every beginner access has ruined shit, period; now we walk a fascist line where it’s uncool to play music or bring my dog to cliffs that I bolted. You don’t think MP is responsible for trash, wake up fool. It’s responsible for more people, and more people means more trash.
The single worst trend in climbing areas is crowds. I know that no one thinks they are “part of that crowd” in their own minds, but the crowds are getting larger; and intentionally making it even larger will eventually cause major restrictions. Why must we promote ourselves like whores? Seriously? Maybe not everyone needs to climb? That’s why they built skate parks, same same, but much better suited for city living.
I am sincerely hoping that all the gym learned climbers give up soon when they find the dedication it takes to maintain climbing fitness in the real world. Fingers crossed.
Insulting someone's climbing ability doesn't make your argument stronger.
"You're"
Every time I see someone post some jerk comment and it contains some really basic grammatical mistake, I just think to myself “I’d probably be angry if I had that level of education to(o?????)”
Nope, but questions like that is why your still climbing 5.8 on a good day.
A. Interesting assumption since I haven’t had a tick in 3 years. Not that climbing ability or inability has anything to do with this.
B. I was climbing for 10+ years before I joined this site. I learned the same way you did in your previous post, but that doesn’t make us better than the new people.
For real. Gym climbers ruined climbing. They call route developing "setting" and whine like a baby when someone mentions making them work for access or earn it through climbing with some OG's instead of having that access handed to them. Those chuffers.
Edit: this is not sarcasm. You whiny gym climbers are ruining outdoors climbing. No, you're not hardcore outdoor in your brand new everything.
Your emotional reaction is causing you to miss the point, as emotional reactions tend to do. The point is that experienced climbers should be better than noobs, not just at climbing, but at leaving as little trace as possible, at being courteous at the crag, safety, etc. Not all experienced climbers are, I know, but it's not difficult to be better than the inexperienced at this, and so most are. Just giving a noob a road map to the crag and then wondering why there are surface duces all over the place is something that directly impacts climbing access negatively, and is a is something Mountain Project shares at least a little bit of culpability in. Sorry if your feelings were hurt before, climbing 5.8 can be a touchy subject I guess. Looks like it struck a major MP nerve there, lol.
I think what you're trying to say is that experienced climbers should have more of a LNT ethic, and back country skills. I feel that a lot of Gym climbers transitioning outside in the beginning (who do not have a lot of outdoor experience, period), may not know these things. As LNT and good outdoor etiquette is not something usually taught in gyms when you're taking a lead course or whatever course that focuses on technical stuff. The issue isn't being an experienced climber or MP, it is that fact that more education isn't being provided to people recreating outside in fragile environments for the first time.
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