hammer ? stainless steel ?

Francis Haden wrote: corrosion (however minor it may be at the time) can also raise concerns amongst the broader (less technically informed) climbing community

And beyond our normal modern attitude of, "Let's feel proud of finding and knowing new reasons to be scared",

One of my favorite guidebook authors wrote:
"If you put up a route, you may be criticized. Try not to take it personally, it's part of the game."

For those of us who sometimes can't help "taking it personally", the awareness that there might be somebody out there looking for something to criticize, and might sieze upon pits of corrosion at the outside end of the bolt stud as "proof" of shoddy workmanship (even if it has no structural significance) -- and so convince other "less technically informed" climbers to avoid our routes.

While lots of climbers are spooked by a loose nut (which often could be easily fixed by carrying a small wrench), I might guess that the assessment that . . . corrosion pits in only the outside end of the bolt stud have no structural significance in the performance of the bolt . . . would be obvious to most climber.
. . . But never underestimate the scare-mongering of the modern public.

Ken

kenr wrote:

And beyond our normal modern attitude of, "Let's feel proud of finding and knowing new reasons to be scared",

One of my favorite guidebook authors wrote:
"If you put up a route, you may be criticized. Try not to take it personally, it's part of the game."

For those of us who sometimes can't help "taking it personally", the awareness that there might be somebody out there looking for something to criticize, and might sieze upon pits of corrosion at the outside end of the bolt stud as "proof" of shoddy workmanship (even if it has no structural significance) -- and so convince other "less technically informed" climbers to avoid our routes.

While lots of climbers are spooked by a loose nut (which often could be easily fixed by carrying a small wrench), I might guess that the assessment that . . . corrosion pits in only the outside end of the bolt stud have no structural significance in the performance of the bolt . . . would be obvious to most climber.
. . . But never underestimate the scare-mongering of the modern public.

Ken

Amen to that. 

Climbers should be POSITIVELY TERRIFIED at the thought of repeating any of my routes. I've be using a steel hammer to drive 1/2" x 3-3/4" 304 stainless studs. That borders on criminal behavior! Anything less than a 316 stainless bolt & hammer combo is a safety crisis in the making! Clipping a bolt is simply unconscionable if a full certificate of origin & installation isn't available along with a detailed analysis of the rock and drug-test results for the installer. 

kevin deweese wrote: the dammer . . .
www.dammerr.com

OK I got that the head is made out of chromoly steel.

But I can't find how much one of those hammers weighs.

. . . (rumored to be a property that climbers often care about).

Can you hammer a wedge or sleeve anchor in with a dead blow hammer? Hard plastic basically.

I use a rubber mallet for glue ins but I'm certain that it wouldn't work for a sleeve anchor.

Has anyone tried it? I'm almost tempted to put a bolt in my driveway to test it.

kevin deweese wrote: I’ve owned every hammer out there (except for the old Duecey hammer anyone have one to part with?) and the dammer is hands down the best for drilling bolt holes.

Www.dammerr.com

Dan makes sick hammers.

Macguyver fact of the day.  If you have an old loosey goosey Yosemite hammer, or other wood hammer or hatchet, you can soak it water and tighten up the fit between the head and the wood. 

I made this for free out of scrap wood in the basement. A wave bolt fits in the slot and you pound the other end of the block. Any hammer works and there’s no metal on metal.

This is THE hammer in my book, and I've had a few.
It's a drywallers hammer from home Depot. $30. The long flat claw claw works amazingly well for prying on flakes, smashing loose rock and cleaning even the thinnest cracks.

If you send me $90 I'll put a sling on it and cover the logo with a BD sticker!!

1.  Another plug for Dammerr. Spend your energies worrying about more relevant factors than micron flakes, like location and strength, and spacing.

The right tool for the job being important? Do you judge a tradesman working in your house by him using the correct tools for his craft? 

Kemper, I am with you on the $, and the more functional angle of the adz (unlike a rock hammer)...but sharp edges are a problem when taking a fall.  

Roy Suggett wrote: Kemper, I am with you on the $, and the more functional angle of the adz (unlike a rock hammer)...but sharp edges are a problem when taking a fall.  

Good call, I don't tend to bolt ground up so have never had that issue!

kenr wrote:

OK I got that the head is made out of chromoly steel.

But I can't find how much one of those hammers weighs.

. . . (rumored to be a property that climbers often care about).

I asked earlier this spring:

Brian,
This batch is 13" long and weighs 25 oz. without the leash. The head is made from 1.25" square stock and is 4.6" long. Head is 4140/4142 chrome-moly steel oil quench hardened and then tempered to about Rockwell C50. On the handle is 1" X .065" DOM tube mild steel. The handle is dry hickory sourced from Georgia. The carabiner hole is bigger to fit a wide variety of biners. 

I have several of Dan's hammers...great hammers, IMHO.  Not a stainless head though.

The tool you want for new routing is a Estwing geologist's hammer.

Hand drills bolts great, nukes bushes and cleans crack like no other. Dedicated rock hammers hammer great, useless when you need some heft to nuke a hummock.

I know a little about this.

:)

Several manufacturers recommend not hitting their bolts with non-stainless steel hammers, or putting something in between the hammer and bolt to protect it. This is titan climbing (they make titanium climbing bolts, great for e.g. Thailand or the California coast): http://www.titanclimbing.com/Titanium%20climbing%20bolt%20installation%20guide.html

Do not use a normal steel hammer as it will leave Iron deposits on the Titanium bolt and the iron will rust, which may cause corrosion issues with the titanium anchor itself. Either use a proper Stainless Steel climbing hammer or a wooden or plastic shim.

ClimbTech makes an attachment for hammering in wave bolts:

The Wave Bolt Installation Tool is a multi-purpose device that clips on to a wave bolt to make it easier to install and also helps prevent bending and rusting caused by bolting with only a hammer.

As an alternative, you can attach e.g. a hand ball to the head of your hammer (see this thread https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110352344/climb-tech-wave-bolt-on-overhangs).

There's some more detail in this Rock and Ice article:

I talked to Climb Tech and they suggested laying a piece of denim or tough cloth over the end of the bolts if you’re using a carbon steel hammer and only placing a few Wave Bolts. I did this and it worked fine, but Climb Tech really recommends the installation tool if you’re placing a lot of Wave Bolts. 

They also mention how being hit with carbon steel tools can cause pitting:

As the bolts are machined—bent and hit with carbon tools—carbon deposits can be embedded in the bolt. These deposits can weather into pits and affect the strength.

The BMC's installer's guide provides some more information about pitting as it relates to reducing the strength of climbing bolts: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bolts-guidance-documents

Pitting corrosion is a localised form of attack and, as the name suggests, it
takes the form of pits. If the pits are small and isolated they shouldn’t have too
great an effect on the strength of the item but if they’re large, numerous and
closely grouped they can significantly weaken the metal. Pits often look small
at the surface but may have larger areas deeper inside the metal.
Pitting corrosion is associated with the localised breakdown of the passive film
(either due to imperfections or chemical breakdown) and as such, is
commonly seen in stainless steels and aluminium alloys.
Chlorides are particularly aggressive to the passive layer so coastal
environments are the most arduous. Alloying with molybdenum helps to
stabilise the passive film on stainless steels so grade 316 is the more
appropriate of the two commonly used stainless steels for use near the coast.

My read of all this: manufacturers of titanium and 316 stainless steel glue-in bolts recommend using a stainless steel hammer, but it's completely acceptable to just cover the bolt with a piece of heavy cloth/rubber/plastic.

Felling wedge cut square with a notch ground into it to fit a wave bolt.  Available at any respectable hardware store, go get a good 25$ dollar solid hammer while you're at it.  May be one more thing to sling and carry but weight/price is negligible and they are literally designed to be hit as hard as you can swing with a felling axe.   More money for beer/gas.

Cheers

For glue-ins with an interference fit, stainless steel or titanium, best practice is to use a non ferrous hammer / barrier to prevent damage of the passivated and polished surface that some manufacturers go to some effort to create when manufacturing their products. Dedicated hammer, wooden shim, tennis ball cover these solutions all do the same job ultimately.

Using a ferrous hammer will drive iron particles into the eye that can later corrode and negates the effort taken at the manufacturing stage to produce a premium product, even if the actual structural impact longterm is nothing more than an unsightly patch of rust.

If corrosion is a problem in a climbing area then anything that could assist in anchor degradation is unwanted.

It's not uncommon to see corrosion to stainless hardware instigated by using carbon steel hammers. Here in relatively dry Utah it will develop after a season or two. Most climbers don't carry a brass brush or oxalic acid powder, so a minor issue is likely to get worse over time. It's a bummer given the added expense and high quality finishing of Stainless or Titanium.

I've tried most of the methods to avoid this and have come around to using a SS hammer as the right tool for the job. (Yo hammers do look to be available again, btw.) Canvas/denim fabric will give way eventually, plastic mallets deform making striking more challenging, installation tools can get stuck and gummed up with glue. Just keep the strike face clean of contaminants and swing freely without fear  - laterally for orientation/help work a stubborn wave bolt in, or even use the nose to hook the eye and funk adhesive bolts out when needed during installation.

If one can find a KONG SPELEAGLE hammer, it's a much lighter SS hammer vs the Yosemite hammer and much less $.

The Kong Speleagle and Eagle SS hammers are available from Liberty Mountain as is the Omega Pacific.

jonathan knight wrote: The Kong Speleagle and Eagle SS hammers are available from Liberty Mountain as is the Omega Pacific.

KONG lists the Eagle and Eagle light as carbon steel on their site.  I was curious about the Eagle light as a "mid weight" but the carbon steel was a no go.  Anyone know for sure?