Telling People "No"

Its like telling a dog "No" when there is a bone a few feet away.  This thread isn't about COVID but of course telling some people "No" to outdoor recreation and to "Stay" at home is similar...

What are some strategies you use to have "that conversation" with a climbing partner and friend that you'll not rope up with them on XYZ and/or they are not ready?  Assume when telling them "No" they get [Insert the unspeakable archaic word here] and offended.  If you don't tell them and they catch word about it they confront you [Insert the unspeakable archaic word here] as well.

Thoughts?

say butt hurt 1 more time...

I've had some partners tell me they don't want to go climbing because of this. No big deal and not offended.

"Butt hurt"? Strengthen your vocabulary.

Friendly Troll critique:

Too much "butt-hurt."

"Butt-hurt" may have worked back in 2008, before the last heterosexual US male died in Afghanistan, but since then it's lost it's way and is now simply on the level of "dweeb," "dork," "nerd," and similar words. Middle-class moms tell their transkids not to act butt-hurt... and those moms have tattoos with Bukowski quotes.

Just too much butt-hurt. It no longer triggers.

There are 2 approaches:

1. Excuses, excuses, excuses:
- “Sorry, I can’t come, I’m running a large and very important troll competition on an online platform with thousands of users”
- “Sorry, I have to clean my refrigerator” (this is my ol’ reliable)
- etc.

2. Be direct:
- “Just because you can toprope 5.11c in the gym, does not mean you are ready for Separate Reality”
- “I do not want to climb today, but maybe on x date”

Thinking about it now, I have to recommend approach 1. 

Just be direct. Tell them what needs to be said in factual terms. It's not personal. Climbing is too serious from a risk standpoint not to be direct. That said, it is a conversation, not an edict, even if you have to stick with your decision. Be respectful but stick by your principals.

I learned somewhere that communication is one of the most important things we do, yet we don't plan for it. Plan what you will say ahead of time. Makes it much easier.

And "butt hurt"? Really? Lose that. Forever.

curt86iroc wrote: say butt hurt 1 more time...

"butt hurt 1 more time..."

Zach Anatta wrote: Friendly Troll critique:

Too much "butt-hurt."

"Butt-hurt" may have worked back in 2008, before the last heterosexual US male died in Afghanistan, but since then it's lost it's way and is now simply on the level of "dweeb," "dork," "nerd," and similar words. Middle-class moms tell their transkids not to act butt-hurt... and those moms have tattoos with Bukowski quotes.

Just too much butt-hurt. It no longer triggers.

I chose [the unspeakable archaic word here] because if I used "Offended" the Boomers would think its about millennials and then drop the BITD (rabble rabble rabble) crap.  After all, millennial's are easily offended.  The OP was in reference to the older generation.  The choice in words always elicits different responses.

Now back to the OP.

Gumby King wrote:

I chose [the unspeakable archaic word here] because if I used "Offended" the Boomers would think its about millennials and then drop the BITD (rabble rabble rabble) crap.  After all, millennial's are easily offended.  The OP was in reference to the older generation.  The choice in words always elicits different responses.

Now back to the OP.

Understood. It's getting harder and harder to trigger anymore. COVID is filling in a lot of gaps in our fighting words lexicon, but I don't know how long that will last. We need some good science fictiony insults to start things off in bars... if bars exist next year. But in forums at any rate.

I think it's helpful to couch things in terms of your limitations rather than concerns about their limitations. For example: "I don't feel that I'm a strong/skilled enough climber to bring you along on this route." Or if they want to flail on a single pitch thing for half the day: "I really need to get a lot of mileage in today to get in shape. I don't think I'll have time to project a route with you."

No need to shit on someone else's dreams. Just let them know you aren't ready to come along for the ride on this one.

I'm all for straightforwardness. I was climbing with a friend who gave me a pretty bad catch, and I gave it to him. I had a long conversation, ahead of the trip, about how important belaying is in our group, and that there was a high expectation for being a great belayer. I talked theory, best practices, and quizzed them for a while about handling different situations. Long story short, I got spiked on a 25-30 degree wall, which is unacceptable. Not only was the angle super easy to give a good catch, but I was cruxing out climbing a tough section when the whole wall was condensated. This blew my mind that they weren't prepared for a fall. I was pissed. They were literally being dragged across the ground, feet grinding in trying not to get pulled into the wall. It was like they had never caught someone before. Unreal. This is someone who I look up to and admire because they climb hard af, and I learn something about movement and trying hard every time I climb with them. But, this is not the first occasion of them showing their lack of care for the art of belaying. If you don't respect belaying as much as leading, then I won't climb with you.

 If he inquires about going out, I'll tell him that I simply won't climb with someone who demonstrates that level of carelessness with their partner's well being. Simple as that. I'll tell them if they can find a partner to climb with, they're welcome to come along, and if they prove over time that they can consistently be a good belayer, then I'd like to climb with them again. Until then, they can learn how to belay watching youtube videos, not with me as a crash dummy.

Tell them straight up, "you're not ready", and explain to them how they can make it happen.

Gumby King wrote:

"butt hurt 1 more time..."

Rocrates wrote: 

1. Excuses, excuses, excuses:
- “Sorry, I can’t come, I’m running a large and very important troll competition on an online platform with thousands of users”
- “Sorry, I have to clean my refrigerator” (this is my ol’ reliable)
- etc.

Sorry, I have to stay home  and polish the cat