Please stay home!

B P wrote:

Lol

You’re so tough

Why thank you for saying so!

Fehim Hasecic wrote:

So is Moab open for business or what? I’m a member of a UT MTB Facebook page and it seems like nothing changed for them, I see the videos of people shredding on a daily basis in Moab since the whole stay the fuck home thing started

Member of the same group. It is good to note. People live in Moab. The majority of those videos are the same locals who update everyone on condition reports.  

We’ve been piling into crowded supermarkets for seven weeks buying food, and we are allowed to purchase liquor and lottery tickets. Those purchases are deemed safe by the state; however, it is critical for viral control that we not purchase sneakers or other hazardous items which pose a greater threat of proximity transmission.
Similarly the COVID-19 virus seems incapable of keeping up with the speed of passenger vehicles, buses, airplanes and trains.  However, once you exit your COVID compliant transportation, the virus can swoop down and attack you if you are in the proximity of a open-space park or beach. 
The Ministry appreciates our compliance in avoiding the dangerous virus freedom zones; and is thankful for compliant citizens who do not question the complex data analysis that goes into regional scientific tracking systems. 
To avoid an increased infection rate it is critical for American citizens to only visit Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, WalMart & other large institutional retail systems with influential lobbying offices near the Covid Mitigation Ministry.   
Effective compliance and mitigation requires that everyone must avoid the small business operations where the virus is more prone to hide out and attack consumers.  The scientific data-hubs in/around K-Street in Washington DC must lead our careful decision-making.

Remember, the Ministry is working closely with regional governors to outline the greatest threat.  Walking on a golf course in Massachusetts is safe-behavior; however, if you carry a particularly shaped stick and swing it at a ball, the virus will immediately target you.
These granular distinctions are very important to understand.
In the Ministry of Delaware food trucks are now permitted to operate; however, if you attempt to purchase a dress for Mothers Day, you are putting society at risk.
Currently in most regions the virus is allowing dogs and cats to have their fur trimmed. However, if a human attempts to commercially reduce the length of your sideburns it will create a viral hot-spot potentially putting the health of our planet at risk

Dan H wrote: We’ve been piling into crowded supermarkets for seven weeks buying food, and we are allowed to purchase liquor and lottery tickets. Those purchases are deemed safe by the state; however, it is critical for viral control that we not purchase sneakers or other hazardous items which pose a greater threat of proximity transmission.
Similarly the COVID-19 virus seems incapable of keeping up with the speed of passenger vehicles, buses, airplanes and trains.  However, once you exit your COVID compliant transportation, the virus can swoop down and attack you if you are in the proximity of a open-space park or beach.
The Ministry appreciates our compliance in avoiding the dangerous virus freedom zones; and is thankful for compliant citizens who do not question the complex data analysis that goes into regional scientific tracking systems.
To avoid an increased infection rate it is critical for American citizens to only visit Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, WalMart & other large institutional retail systems with influential lobbying offices near the Covid Mitigation Ministry.  
Effective compliance and mitigation requires that everyone must avoid the small business operations where the virus is more prone to hide out and attack consumers.  The scientific data-hubs in/around K-Street in Washington DC must lead our careful decision-making.

Remember, the Ministry is working closely with regional governors to outline the greatest threat.  Walking on a golf course in Massachusetts is safe-behavior; however, if you carry a particularly shaped stick and swing it at a ball, the virus will immediately target you.
These granular distinctions are very important to understand.
In the Ministry of Delaware food trucks are now permitted to operate; however, if you attempt to purchase a dress for Mothers Day, you are putting society at risk.
Currently in most regions the virus is allowing dogs and cats to have their fur trimmed. However, if a human attempts to commercially reduce the length of your sideburns it will create a viral hot-spot potentially putting the health of our planet at risk

Your unauthorized post posits that our technocratic, globalist elite may be either (1) fools, or (2) malevolent, or even, (3) making a power grab while idiots are hypnotized by the media.
You have been reported to the appropriate authorities.

There is no "i" in "team". Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for new shoes or a haircut.

I'm honestly curious what the death toll needs to get to before the deniers actually start understanding that we are all in this together? 

A Non wrote: There is no "i" in "team". Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for new shoes or a haircut.

I'm honestly curious what the death toll needs to get to before the deniers actually start understanding that we are all in this together? 

Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for guidance from your alarmist partisan media or CYA 'experts'.

I'm honestly curious how many people need to lose their jobs and businesses before partisan alarmists start to understand that we have all been sacrificing quite a bit.

A Non wrote: There is no "i" in "team". Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for new shoes or a haircut.

I'm honestly curious what the death toll needs to get to before the deniers actually start understanding that we are all in this together? 

How long will you have to wait in a breadline for food until you admit that the quarantine was an overreaction?

Other Other wrote: No vaccine for maybe two years and no herd immunity ever without going outside . Waves of plague for years without vaccine or herd immunity 

Exactly. People are slowly waking up to this, but too late to stop the economic damage.

A Non wrote:

I'm honestly curious what the death toll needs to get to before the deniers actually start understanding that we are all in this together? 

I should have expected no answer!

A Non wrote:

I should have expected no answer!

I responded to you. Read the posts.

Laurie Mathis wrote:

Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for guidance from your alarmist partisan media or CYA 'experts'.

I'm honestly curious how many people need to lose their jobs and businesses before partisan alarmists start to understand that we have all been sacrificing quite a bit.

You seen very bipartisan and open-minded. Maybe you should run for office? Don't trust the experts, etc. Who would you listen to? I'm serious. Who would you trust to step up to the mic and advise everyone. I'm not talking 20/20 hindsight, but over the last 2 months? You really don't think that without these precautions and quarantine, many mid-large cities and populated states would look like NY? It was clear that there were more infections in NY weeks before these measures, and luckily all eyes were in Seattle, NY, NJ and states could shut down before things got out of hand. It is clear that this isn't sustainable, and the difficulty will be to ease the restrictions in a manor that with titrate the infections to keep below 'the curve' but allow re-opening of the economy, etc. This will take a lot of time to balance.

The same people would be up in arms (probably literally) if enough wasn't done and more places looked like NY. This was always the fear; the extreme measures have to be taken (even the Orange Man eventually came around). but if the measures work (and they are working even better than predicted), the nearsighted will be outraged. It's a no-win situation, and this has been known for almost 2 months.

A Non wrote: There is no "i" in "team". Try and think of your fellow countrymen, not just your need for new shoes or a haircut.

I'm honestly curious what the death toll needs to get to before the deniers actually start understanding that we are all in this together? 

In almost all regions of ministry control, furniture purchasing seems like one of the most potentially dangerous activities.  Out of an abundance of caution these consumer hubs of activity have been shut-down; however, the Ministry is evaluating how the virus would respond if cans of vegetables were placed within the building.  
According to the most extensive study conducted so far, commercial buildings with cans of vegetables appear to be the safest venue allowing congregation and proximity.  It is unknown if moving canned foods and sandwiches into the furniture stores, or other less traveled venues, would transfer the benefits of virus mitigation.  The Ministry has a teleconference with scientists and industry experts scheduled later this week to analyze this question.
In the interim, the Ministry would like to remind you the greatest danger is the type of purchasing you make.  Large box retailers with dense populations are safe-spaces.  Smaller business with less density are hazards; and houses of religious worship are death traps due to their propensity to promote the most critically dangerous activity of all, fellowship. 
Because the literal health of our nations’ citizens are at risk, we must remain steadfast and resolved to keep all hospitals and patient facilities closed and at precipice of financial ruin.
Remember, we are all in this together; and to prove how critical this is to our society we must all stay apart.

Why Sweden Has Already Won The Debate On COVID-19 "Lockdown" Policy

 Authored by Patrick Henningson via 21stCenturyWire.com,

Unlike many others, Sweden has not enforced any strict mass quarantine measures to contain COVID-19, nor has it closed any of its borders. Rather, Swedish health authorities have issued a series of guidelines for social distancing and other common sense measures covering areas like hygiene, travel, public gatherings, and protecting the elderly and immune compromised. They have kept all preschools, primary and secondary schools open, while closing college and universities who are now doing their work and lectures online. Likewise, many bars and restaurants have remained open, and shoppers do not have to perform the bizarre ritual of queuing around the block standing 2 meters apart in order to buy groceries.
According to the country’s top scientists, they are now well underway to achieving natural herd immunity. It seems this particular Nordic model has already won the debate.
Because Sweden decided to follow real epidemiological science and pursue a common sense strategy of herd immunity, it doesn’t need to “flatten of the curve” because its strategic approach has the added benefit of achieving a much more gradual and wider spread.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s government advisor for epidemiology explains, “We are all trying to keep the spread of this disease as low as possible, mainly to prevent our healthcare system from being overstretched, but we have not gone for the complete lockdown. We have managed to keep the number of cases low enough so the intensive care units have kept working and there has always been 20 per cent beds empty and enough protective equipment, even in Stockholm, where there has been a huge stress on healthcare. So in that way the strategy has worked.”
Similarly, it doesn’t have the deal with the newest "crisis" obstacle which lockdown states seem to be using as an excuse not to reopen society and the economy, which the fear of a "second peak" which governments are telling the public will wreak havoc on the nation by “infecting the vulnerable” and will “overwhelm the health services” if everything is suddenly reopened and social isolation and distancing is relaxed.

This catch-22 which countries like the US and UK are caught in is predicated on the belief that the coronavirus might suddenly unleash itself again on the populace. Certainly, there could be a second surge, but it should be noted that this is also a direct result of the decision to impose lockdown in the first place. According to top epidemiologist Dr Knut Wikkowski, the decision to lockdown only delayed the inevitable for countries like the US and UK, and quite possibly made the COVID-19 problem even worse than it would have previously been in the short to midterm, but in the long-term the results would be relatively the same proportionally in term of human casualties.
The penny should have really dropped after it was revealed two weeks ago by Oxford Professor Carl Heneghan, Director for Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, that the peak of the UK’s coronavirus "crisis" actually came a full week before Boris Johnson initiated lockdown on March 23rd.
In fact, if you plug in Sweden’s actual data into Neil Ferguson’s own infamous computer model which sent the UK government into mass-panic mode, here’s what you would get:

https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/SWEDEN-CHART-1.jpg?itok=WmJEXabS

The numbers don’t lie, but statistics can be made to tell any story the narrator wants, especially when the storyteller is government. Just look at the last 50 years of announcements regarding unemployment and inflation levels. One thing we should have learned by now is that government will never let things like facts and real science get in the way of a slow motion train wreck in progress, hence you can see some UK officials still clinging to Ferguson’s initial prediction as some sort of "proof" that the lockdown was necessary to avoid "mass death."
Outside of popular supposition and media talking points, there is no scientific study which shows that lockdown saved any significant number of lives. Instead, new data strongly suggests quite the opposite.

full article 21stcenturywire.com/2020/05…

I am not a denier I am a critic of all information and suspect of those who would so easily believe a goverment that sent us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Liyba, Egypt and Syria is capable of now, the best decisions in our interests regardless of race, creed, color or political disposition.

Dan H wrote: Why Sweden Has Already Won The Debate On COVID-19 "Lockdown" Policy

 Authored by Patrick Henningson via 21stCenturyWire.com,

Unlike many others, Sweden has not enforced any strict mass quarantine measures to contain COVID-19, nor has it closed any of its borders. Rather, Swedish health authorities have issued a series of guidelines for social distancing and other common sense measures covering areas like hygiene, travel, public gatherings, and protecting the elderly and immune compromised. They have kept all preschools, primary and secondary schools open, while closing college and universities who are now doing their work and lectures online. Likewise, many bars and restaurants have remained open, and shoppers do not have to perform the bizarre ritual of queuing around the block standing 2 meters apart in order to buy groceries.
According to the country’s top scientists, they are now well underway to achieving natural herd immunity. It seems this particular Nordic model has already won the debate.
Because Sweden decided to follow real epidemiological science and pursue a common sense strategy of herd immunity, it doesn’t need to “flatten of the curve” because its strategic approach has the added benefit of achieving a much more gradual and wider spread.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s government advisor for epidemiology explains, “We are all trying to keep the spread of this disease as low as possible, mainly to prevent our healthcare system from being overstretched, but we have not gone for the complete lockdown. We have managed to keep the number of cases low enough so the intensive care units have kept working and there has always been 20 per cent beds empty and enough protective equipment, even in Stockholm, where there has been a huge stress on healthcare. So in that way the strategy has worked.”
Similarly, it doesn’t have the deal with the newest "crisis" obstacle which lockdown states seem to be using as an excuse not to reopen society and the economy, which the fear of a "second peak" which governments are telling the public will wreak havoc on the nation by “infecting the vulnerable” and will “overwhelm the health services” if everything is suddenly reopened and social isolation and distancing is relaxed.

This catch-22 which countries like the US and UK are caught in is predicated on the belief that the coronavirus might suddenly unleash itself again on the populace. Certainly, there could be a second surge, but it should be noted that this is also a direct result of the decision to impose lockdown in the first place. According to top epidemiologist Dr Knut Wikkowski, the decision to lockdown only delayed the inevitable for countries like the US and UK, and quite possibly made the COVID-19 problem even worse than it would have previously been in the short to midterm, but in the long-term the results would be relatively the same proportionally in term of human casualties.
The penny should have really dropped after it was revealed two weeks ago by Oxford Professor Carl Heneghan, Director for Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, that the peak of the UK’s coronavirus "crisis" actually came a full week before Boris Johnson initiated lockdown on March 23rd.
In fact, if you plug in Sweden’s actual data into Neil Ferguson’s own infamous computer model which sent the UK government into mass-panic mode, here’s what you would get:

https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/SWEDEN-CHART-1.jpg?itok=WmJEXabS

The numbers don’t lie, but statistics can be made to tell any story the narrator wants, especially when the storyteller is government. Just look at the last 50 years of announcements regarding unemployment and inflation levels. One thing we should have learned by now is that government will never let things like facts and real science get in the way of a slow motion train wreck in progress, hence you can see some UK officials still clinging to Ferguson’s initial prediction as some sort of "proof" that the lockdown was necessary to avoid "mass death."
Outside of popular supposition and media talking points, there is no scientific study which shows that lockdown saved any significant number of lives. Instead, new data strongly suggests quite the opposite.

full article 21stcenturywire.com/2020/05…

I am not a denier I am a critic of all information and suspect of those who would so easily believe a goverment that sent us into Iraq, Afghanistan, Liyba, Egypt and Syria is capable of now, the best decisions in our interests regardless of race, creed, color or political disposition.

I was going to respond but you basically did it for me. Excellent breakdown.
You won't convince the nerve-jobs on this forum though.

Zach Anatta wrote: 

I was going to respond but you basically did it for me. Excellent breakdown.
You won't convince the nerve-jobs on this forum though.

Trying to convince via an Alex Jones / Infowars wannabe?

From: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/21st-century-wire/

21st Century Wire is a conspiracy and conjecture site run by Patrick Henningsen. Henningsen has ties to both Infowars and Alex Jones, also known for fake news and broad conspiracies. They also seem to have ties to, or at least to be pro-Russian in much of their content.  Specifically Russian Today (RT) the state run Russian news outlet.

Funded by / Ownership
21st Century Wire is owned by Patrick Henningsen and is funded primarily through online advertising.

Analysis / Bias
21st Century Wire is an alternative news website that rejects the consensus of science regarding climate change and also promotes the conspiracy that mainstream media is publishing fake news. This source has also received an unproven claim by Snopes, which 21st Century Wire considers a questionable source. The website Fort Liberty has placed 21st Century Wire on it’s Fake News/Hoax list. 21st Century employs somewhat sensational headlines and does provide sourcing to attempt to support claims, however most are to themselves. The primary issue is that 21st Century publishes some questionable stories (see examples above) that are embedded among legitimate stories they publish. This can mislead the reader.

A factual search reveals 21st Century Wire has a poor record with fact checkers. (D. Van Zandt 7/20/2016)

(Dennis Kelly): 21st Century Wire is a conspiracy and fake news website with an extreme right bias. Additionally, their headlines are sensationalist and largely misleading.
Their stories are non-sourced, with no links except to their own stories, and are little more than loosely associated facts tied together with broad conjecture and innuendo. When trying to research some of their claims myself I could find no corroboration from a credible source. Ironically, they are currently in a self proclaimed war against “Fake News”, and the site features several stories on the subject. These war on “fake news” stories, as with their other content, contain little fact and lots of conjecture, with links to their other stories instead of links to external sources.

Regarding Sweden:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/17/coronavirus-in-sweden-it-s-a-myth-that-life-is-going-on-as-normal-says-swedish-government

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/sweden-records-deadliest-week-of-century-after-resisting-lockdowns/

Even the moron in the White House: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/495408-trump-sweden-paying-heavily-for-not-locking-down-nation

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/04/29/sweden-no-lockdown-update-phil-black-ebof-dnt-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus-intl/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-fatality-rate-how-sweden-compares-to-its-scandinavian-neighbors/

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/is-swedens-covid-19-handling-a-failure-or-a-success

Here's the latest from Friends of Indian Creek (click to enlarge):

There's not enough love on this website.
Nor basic economic education.
 

Marc801 C wrote: Here's the latest from Friends of Indian Creek (click to enlarge):

They aren't safer, they're just ignorant of what herd-immunity is.

Ignorance is not a moral failure, just a failure of education. You should try to educate them instead of celebrating their ignorance.
This is for you Marc: This Fall there will probably not be a vaccine yet, and the virus will likely make a comeback and the death rate possibly worse. Are you in favor of another, months long quarantine then, right through the flu season? A yes or no is fine, I'm just curious about what endgame you see for your point of view.

Edit for Matt N below because of stupid post limit: I had a positive antibody test come back. I go everywhere now and I feel fine.

Did I hear wrong or did New York City only close down the subways for the first time last week--and then only overnight to disinfect?  That might help explain their huge infection numbers compared to the rest of the country.  If that is true, it blows my mind!

Personally I think intentionally creating a decade-long depression is worse for Americans than a very lethal flu season (500,000 deaths?).  The collateral deaths will greatly outnumber a half-million Covid fatalities.  Sweden has the right approach.  I realize that to help defeat Trump, a few folks want this to last through election day in November and are doing everything in their power to see it happen.  There are also probably a few CCP trolls on here spreading disinformation.

Also, for the record, back in January, InfoWars was one of the first sites to attribute the virus to the Wuhan labs work on "Gain of Function" bat virus studies .  That fact is common knowledge now the NIH has admitted funding their work (no thanks to Fauci, who authorized the money).  Alex Jones may be a bit of a blowhard, but he is right more often than not.

I had to drive up to Portland and back last week (through Utah) and observed may be 10% of the people I saw wearing masks.  People were taking sensible precautions (fast food/hotel workers using gloves/masks), but didn't seem scared or paranoid.  It was very encouraging.  The folks in Utah were very friendly, like I'm used to expecting, and things looked like they were starting to open up in Moab.