Climbing gym re-opening survey by Vertical-Life

I thought this was an interesting and well constructed survey by Vertical-life. It breaks down some decent scenarios and asks what you personally would be willing to do to return to the gym. 

https://vertical-life.typeform.com/to/iLoGLa

ErikaNW wrote: I thought this was an interesting and well constructed survey by Vertical-life. It breaks down some decent scenarios and asks what you personally would be willing to do to return to the gym. 

https://vertical-life.typeform.com/to/iLoGLa

++ Thanks for sharing.

Good stuff 

Good survey.  Thanks.

Good survey! I was amused, when I replied I'd stay in my region for climbing, to be asked to pick what country I'd be traveling to.

Best, Helen

I took the survey.

I had Covid-19 in March.  It was no big deal.  I didn't get tested, stayed home and recovered in 5 days.   There are hundreds of thousands of people like me in Colorado, but the government and media aren't paying any attention to the number of recovered people.   There's not even a column or estimate in the official numbers, even though 80% of the people with Covid will have moderate, mild or no symptoms, will stay home, recover and not be counted.

https://covid19.colorado.gov/data/case-data

So do I want to accept limitations on anything?  Do I want to wear a mask to go to Denver?  Fuck no.   I'm immune, non-contagious, and pissed off.   I'm gonna start a T-shirt company with shirts that say, GET OVER IT, I DID!

John Byrnes wrote:
I had Covid-19 in March.  It was no big deal.  I didn't get tested, stayed home and recovered in 5 days.   ...

  I'm immune, non-contagious, and pissed off. 

If you didn't get tested, how do you know you had Covid? And if you don't know 100% it was covid, you ain't immune/non-contagious.

And dude it's OK to feel pissed off. I think we may ALL be pissed off. Get fucking pissed off! And get a pair of runnin' shoes and join all the runners, burning off that, "pissed off" energy. We're all crushin' it out there.

John Byrnes wrote: I took the survey.

   I'm immune, non-contagious, and pissed off.  

Gonna look good on yer gravestone.

Jim Titt wrote: Gonna look good on yer gravestone.

Anger has always led to good decisions, hasn’t it?

Wait. You are not from the USA.  My bad. ;)

Based on the newest srudies, it is unknown whether someone who has contract Covid 19 and recovered is immune or even virus free. One person in China was found to still have the virus and actively "shedding" it for more than two months.

And since you were never tested, you have no basis for the statement you made.

Randy wrote: Based on the newest srudies, it is unknown whether someone who has contract Covid 19 and recovered is immune or even virus free. One person in China was found to still have the virus and actively "shedding" it for more than two months.

I don’t know what study specifically you are referring to, but I highly doubt that this person is “shedding” live virus, rather than still having detectable traces of virus RNA, but not being contagious. Below is a layman’s summary of the more likely explanations. 
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-reinfections-were-false-positives.html?fbclid=IwAR30RVkDJuevCIeMOnKEEjrLAyc49oiusA244KLJ7Y4QUWiLfvk5p1w0odU

And since you were never tested, you have no basis for the statement you made.

That is correct. 

There are some legitimate, though possibly wrong, arguments to be made about levels of lockdown etc..... but anyone complaining (or refusing) about putting on a mask in crowded areas is a full ass snowflake diaper baby.  Like a child complaining about putting on a coat when it's cold outside.  It a minor, temporary inconvenience and unless you got tested you are gambling with others people's health.  

Patrik wrote: If you didn't get tested, how do you know you had Covid? And if you don't know 100% it was covid, you ain't immune/non-contagious.

Here's how I know:   First of all, I've had flu three times.  I know what that feels like, and this was NOT like that.  Secondly, I flew home from overseas and two days later woke up feeling sick.  Third, I've spoken with two doctors and described the symptoms I had and they both agreed that I had a mild case.    They both were frustrated, like I was, that a blood test was still not available, and the one that is, isn't very accurate.    I've asked for one, it's not available.

Lastly, if you're afraid, stay home.  95% is good enough for me.

Randy wrote: Based on the newest srudies, it is unknown whether someone who has contract Covid 19 and recovered is immune or even virus free. One person in China was found to still have the virus and actively "shedding" it for more than two months.

This is classic misinformation.  Go research what it means to be 'recovered' from any virus infection.  

And since you were never tested, you have no basis for the statement you made.

Randy, stay home.  You're obviously afraid.  I'm going out.

John Byrnes wrote: 

So do I want to accept limitations on anything?  Do I want to wear a mask to go to Denver?  Fuck no.   I'm immune, non-contagious, and pissed off.   I'm gonna start a T-shirt company with shirts that say, GET OVER IT, I DID!

Seems to me it's common courtesy and decency to wear a mask when you are around people in public.

Grocery store workers, among others, have no way of knowing whether you are genuinely immune and non-contagious or just another self important guy who had a bad case of this year's strain of influenza.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Seems to me it's common courtesy and decency to wear a mask when you are around people in public.

CONFORM!  

Grocery store workers, among others, have no way of knowing whether you are genuinely immune and non-contagious or just another self important guy who had a bad case of this year's strain of influenza.

Guess what?  The number of people  here in the U.S. who have had Covid and recovered is now about 5.5 million and is a rapidly growing group.   Everybody is gonna have to get used to the fact that there's a shitload of people out there who are now immune.

John Byrnes wrote: CONFORM!  

Guess what?  The number of people  here in the U.S. who have had Covid and recovered is now about 5.5 million and is a rapidly growing group.   Everybody is gonna have to get used to the fact that there's a shitload of people out there who are now immune.

Anyone can see that people are on edge. Wearing a mask when in tight areas like grocery store aisles calms the general public. No one there knows your medical history. It's not a large sacrifice to make. Just relax and yes conform for the good of everyone. 

It's disappointing that you can't see that this tiny sacrifice would help the general public.

i think it's kind of funny how many people have had the sniffles in the last 6 months and are like "oh yeah, i had the covid big time, yesssirreebobb..."

It is also impossible to tell at this point how strong the immunity is to Covid and how long the immunity lasts. There are other virus , like RSV that can reinfect fairly quickly. Immunity to other Coronavirus can be long lasting, or potentially less than a year (229E). The bottom line is that nobody knows at this point, and without real evidence, erring on the conservative side seems like a good idea. Especially when the conservative side is something as simple as wearing mask...yer ‘mericun freedomz not withstanding.

Jon Welch wrote: I had H1N1 in early Feb. It was exactly like covid19. 

I don't think so.  

It was a big deal and I was as sick as I've ever been. There are chest xrays to prove it. I thought I had COVID. But the nose swab indicated it was H1N1 and not COVID. It ook about 6 weeks to get my breathing back to normal.  But again it was H1N1 as far as I know. Without a test you don't know and I doubt you had COVID. TO add to this, I ran into someone that had the exact same experience as I did,  but in March. Her's was H1N1 too.

I've had flu three times so I know what flu feels like.  And guess what?  I had a flu vaccine shot in November.  So the likelihood that I had flu is about zero.

Saturday I ran into another person who had had Covid, recovered and was back at work.   Our symptoms were identical except he was sick for two more days than I was.  He didn't get tested either, just stayed home until he got better, which is what most people do (see below).   You want to flatten the curve: you only go for medical help if you get really bad and only then do you get tested.   This is why there's millions of recovered/immune people out there who have not been counted.   Add in the people all the asymptomatic people and there's even more.

While I was waiting for my new tires to be put on, I walked around and spent 20 minutes talking with three Covid testers, all in their PPE, outside the local medical center.  They were bored.  No one was there. They told me YOU CAN'T GET A TEST without first calling and describing your symptoms.   You can only get a test appointment if you have severe symptoms and paranoid people cheat by overstating their symptoms.  If you have mild or moderate symptoms you're told to stay home and call back if it gets worse.  So don't give me shit about not being tested!

What I see here on MP is Herd Mentality.   People have been inundated with The Message and feel it's their duty to make everyone conform whether it makes sense or not.    Most of them don't seem to know much about virology (eg. Corona virus surviving for days in direct sunlight is such bullshit.) and the acknowledgement of comorbidity is almost nil as well.   For example:

Does anyone remember the Health Crisis in America before Covid?  
21% of the population are smokers.  We don't have good numbers for vapers but there's millions of them.
70% of the population is overweight
40% are obese; the average American is 50lbs over a healthy weight!
10% are adult onset, Type 2, diabetics.  

I spoke with an acquaintance on Friday who's a doctor.  His comment with respect to the above statistics: "That's what killing them.  The Covid just makes worse what's already wrong with them."  
So if you're already unhealthy, yeah, you need to be really careful.   Or if you're being exposed to high doses of Corona virus, like a health care worker,  you need to be very, very careful.   But for the rest of us, not so much.