New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #11

Senor Arroz wrote:

Yeah, that's what happened. I accidentally tied a long tail and then just put the stopper on it to get it out of the way. Obviously that failed. Now I always adjust them shorter if I accidentally get a long tail the first try. 

I'm afraid I'm OCD enough to have spent time at home tying the knot just the way I want it and then using a body part measurement (fingertips to adam's apple for me with 8.5mm ropes) to reproduce that length, so I get my knot with a small hand-sized loop and a six-inch tail every time...

I can think of some good jokes involving body parts and the length of a knots tail, but I'm far too polite to mention any.

All this talk of knots makes me seriously wish I was working harder at 'rope systems' right now.  I think just enjoy it more in the field, where it's used.

Yesterday we went to spend the afternoon with my daughter and her family who lives in the Sierra (semi) amidst 200 foot pine trees.  She gets so excited when we can talk ropes and climbing... hers for the purpose of SAR and mountaineering, but hey... at least my eyes don't glaze over.  

They do KNOTS.  Where I might want to know and use 5 or 10 knots for the purpose of climbing... they had some 30 they were required to know and they use a cool App called Knots3D (which I also have).  Her harness looks like military armour.  And she brought out her rope to show me what they're working with... a 300 foot static rope.  I dropped that around my neck and almost fell to the ground.  They carry a whole lot of shit with them, at altitude... I'm not sure how this is fun.  

Today an SAR buddy will be coming to her house to do 'rope techie' stuff... meaning, he will be climbing one of those trees and rigging an anchor from the top so she can practice climbing it.  She asked to borrow my gri gri, but apparently in SAR this is not considered cool.  Then again, they are lowering from helicopters, and pulling cars out of ravines... I guess they need more gear.  

Gosh I miss climbing.     

Wow, 30 knots is a lot.  I tried to think of all the knots I know and came up with about 20, and my impression is that I know more than most climbers...

Edit: I thought of lots more more knots and I'm well over 30.  Possibly way over if I'm allowed to count variations as separate knots (eg bowline with stopper knot, double bowline, bowline with Yosemite finish, tucked Yosemite bowline, regular and dutch navy (or cowboy) bowlines, Eskimo bowline, and at least one more I don't know the name of). Same with the EDK, there's the regular EDK, the tucked EDK, the double EDK, the 1,5 EDK, the EDK that uses a double fisherman's rather than an overhand, the EDK that uses a barrel knot rather than an overhand,  and the much-maligned EDK that uses a figure-8 rather than an overhand.

Phew! This is knot fun!

Wow I guess I don’t know Jack.

I only know how to tie like 6 knots, including the shoe laces.

I’m always suspicious of folks who like to “show off” there vast knowledge of knots when your like 300 feet off the deck- save it for the sailboat.

Well I hope people are doing fine.... busted out for the weekend, I was able to spread my germs all over this new desert hang with two of my closest friends.

I hope everyone is fine!

Hi Lori. When I was in college I worked on YOSAR for a few summers. During El Cap rescues our longest ropes were 1,000 feet- it took two people to carry one of those!

Rgold, I saw your reference to 8.5 mm ropes for your climbing rope. Do you typically use 8.5 mm half ropes for climbing in the Gunks?  I'm guessing that smaller diameter made it hard to untie after a leader fall if using a figure eight follow-through tie-in, and that's why you switched to the bowline?

rgold wrote: Wow, 30 knots is a lot.  I tried to think of all the knots I know and came up with about 20, and my impression is that I know more than most climbers...

I have been chuckling over all the rope and knots talk.  Whereas I might know some knots now, I sure wouldn't try them out on Bob!  I feel I have my hands full just making a proper figure 8 that is acceptable to him, and half the time it isn't.    God forbid he was giving the SAR test.  

BTW... I'll have to go back and review my daughter's knot test.  I thought she said 30 +... but it might also have been rigging knot combinations.  In some of their scenarios they had ropes and knots going in so many directions I completely lost track of what they were trying to accomplish.    

Bob Gaines wrote: Hi Lori. When I was in college I worked on YOSAR for a few summers. During El Cap rescues our longest ropes were 1,000 feet- it took two people to carry one of those!

Rgold, I saw your reference to 8.5 mm ropes for your climbing rope. Do you typically use 8.5 mm half ropes for climbing in the Gunks?  I'm guessing that smaller diameter made it hard to untie after a leader fall if using a figure eight follow-through tie-in, and that's why you switched to the bowline?

Bob, strange as it may seem, I use 8.5 mm half ropes for just about everything; just an all-around better mousetrap as far as I'm concerned with uses far beyond the usual claim about rope friction reduction.  (I'd use a single rope at Indian Creek) I think I've been using bowlines on my half ropes since I started using half ropes, which might have been 30 years ago?.   But the totally welded knots I and my friends experienced were all with single ropes. ("Totally welded" means we ended up cutting the knot off.)  That was quite a while ago, and it may be that ropes have gotten better in this regard.  Still, I've struggled with a friend to undo a figure-8 within the last year or two.  

Plenty, probably most, Brits use figure-8's on their half ropes, so the smaller diameter can't make things that much worse, eh?

My guaranteed solution for untying the figure 8s I use on my 9.2 and 8.8 mm single ropes - never fall on them!!
Seriously, I  do sometimes fall and I haven't ever had an impossible to untie figure 8. ( I use a 1/2 double fisherman's backup.)  Of course it does happen and it's fun to hear stories of "totally welded" knots!  Yet another reason to always carry a knife.

I'm enjoying the heat wave here in southern California.  I'm working on constructing a traversing wall on a long retaining wall we have in the backyard.  The concrete block is marginally climbable just with the rugosities in the block but it's too intense for a nice long workout.  Hubby is drilling on wood footholds for me.  And I just noticed that there's a corner of the garage that's perfect for a crack machine, but I haven't tried to sell the hubby on building that one yet.

Hey phylp. Sounds like a fun wall. Years ago I worked on the movie Cliffhanger. My initial job was to train Sylvester Stallone, and to build a climbing wall in his backyard in Bel Air. He had a 10-foot high retaining wall on two sides of his tennis court that we drilled into and bolted on holds. We designed and rated a circuit of boulder problems in advance of his first lesson.

In addition to the boulder problems, we constructed a 32-foot high overhanging toprope wall with 4- x 8- foot panels. After the wall was taken down I inherited the panels and installed them in my garage. I got rid of them years ago since it was more fun climbing in the gym, but boy I wish I still had them now!

During his first backyard lesson Sly climbed 5.10c. He was a strong dude with a plus 7-inch ape index- useful for boxing and climbing!

Bob Gaines wrote: Hey phylp. Sounds like a fun wall. Years ago I worked on the movie Cliffhanger. My initial job was to train Sylvester Stallone, and to build a climbing wall in his backyard in Bel Air. He had a 10-foot high retaining wall on two sides of his tennis court that we drilled into and bolted on holds. We designed and rated a circuit of boulder problems in advance of his first lesson.

In addition to the boulder problems, we constructed a 32-foot high overhanging toprope wall with 4- x 8- foot panels. After the wall was taken down I inherited the panels and installed them in my garage. I got rid of them years ago since it was more fun climbing in the gym, but boy I wish I still had them now!

During his first backyard lesson Sly climbed 5.10c. He was a strong dude with a plus 7-inch ape index- useful for boxing and climbing!

And, Bob Gaines even played Captain Kirk climbing in Yosemite on El Cap!

Alex called it "legit"!

Here's a question...
I find I get what's called delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) no matter what kind of training or climbing I do.
Worst on the next day.
Even if the workout is something I've been doing forever.

Apparently there's recent research which suggests the discomfort of DOMS is actually from the connective tissue (fascia, extracellular matrix, etc) and not from the muscles.

I saw a research paper recently (can find this citation if anyone is interested) that suggested that collagen intake might decrease DOMS.
Didn't help me. Admittedly just two trials and not exactly the same protocol as the paper.

I also recall that Dragons (?) mentioned upthread that she hadn't found collagen useful in other settings.
That's been my experience as well, taking it prior to training.
I still have a big bottle though, so will persist till it's gone anyway :-)

Anyone else have this issue with DOMS?
And more importantly, anyone have a cure?

Mark E Dixon wrote: Here's a question...
I find I get what's called delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) no matter what kind of training or climbing I do.
Worst on the next day.
Even if the workout is something I've been doing forever.

Apparently there's recent research which suggests the discomfort of DOMS is actually from the connective tissue (fascia, extracellular matrix, etc) and not from the muscles.

I saw a research paper recently (can find this citation if anyone is interested) that suggested that collagen intake might decrease DOMS.
Didn't help me. Admittedly just two trials and not exactly the same protocol as the paper.

I also recall that Dragons (?) mentioned upthread that she hadn't found collagen useful in other settings.
That's been my experience as well, taking it prior to training.
I still have a big bottle though, so will persist till it's gone anyway :-)

Anyone else have this issue with DOMS?
And more importantly, anyone have a cure?

Maybe try DMSO?  /s.   Kevin Bein swore by it.  It’s horse liniment. 

Mark E Dixon wrote: Here's a question...
I find I get what's called delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) no matter what kind of training or climbing I do.
Worst on the next day.
Even if the workout is something I've been doing forever.

Apparently there's recent research which suggests the discomfort of DOMS is actually from the connective tissue (fascia, extracellular matrix, etc) and not from the muscles.

I saw a research paper recently (can find this citation if anyone is interested) that suggested that collagen intake might decrease DOMS.
Didn't help me. Admittedly just two trials and not exactly the same protocol as the paper.

I also recall that Dragons (?) mentioned upthread that she hadn't found collagen useful in other settings.
That's been my experience as well, taking it prior to training.
I still have a big bottle though, so will persist till it's gone anyway :-)

Anyone else have this issue with DOMS?
And more importantly, anyone have a cure?

Have you tried using a foam roller? You really need to devote some time to using it properly. But great for DOMS.

frank minunni wrote:

Maybe try DMSO?  /s.   Kevin Bein swore by it.  It’s horse liniment. 

I won't go into the myriad of reasons why this is a bad idea (easy to just check Web MD if one wants these), but I will say there are no verified clinical studies that show effectiveness of DMSO for joint or muscle pain.  

Mark E Dixon wrote: Here's a question...
I find I get what's called delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) no matter what kind of training or climbing I do.
Worst on the next day.
Even if the workout is something I've been doing forever.

Apparently there's recent research which suggests the discomfort of DOMS is actually from the connective tissue (fascia, extracellular matrix, etc) and not from the muscles.

I saw a research paper recently (can find this citation if anyone is interested) that suggested that collagen intake might decrease DOMS.
Didn't help me. Admittedly just two trials and not exactly the same protocol as the paper.

I also recall that Dragons (?) mentioned upthread that she hadn't found collagen useful in other settings.
That's been my experience as well, taking it prior to training.
I still have a big bottle though, so will persist till it's gone anyway :-)

Anyone else have this issue with DOMS?
And more importantly, anyone have a cure?

I had tendonosis in both shoulders a while ago and found quite large doses of vitamin C helped. I also bought and infra red hand held massage machine which gave some relief too. 

Our county has opened up the county parks finally. Jean and I went out Wednesday and Thursday to just TR a couple of climbs. We found out just so how out of shape we are for not doing anything in about 5-6 weeks of not climbing.

No pictures of us climbing since we were the only 2 people out there.

Picture of a 5.7 overhang that we did about 6 times each. Fingers were tender due to loss of callus.

Did 5 laps on this 5.8 slightly overhanging route.

Hopefully will start to get back into shape over the next couple of weeks.

John

Those look like fun routes John! Jim and I got out yesterday as well - we were able to hit a crag that is pretty obscure but has some good face climbs. I’ve been doing a hangboard routine for the past 6 weeks (1st time I’ve ever done that kind of training). I was surprised at how strong I felt on these really awkward crimps - and no finger pain (was nursing a finger injury all of January and February). My footwork felt awful though - usually my strength - and we were both surprised at how much our feet hurt. We only did 2 routes, but it was nice to get out, and we were able to do so without violating the public health orders.

Oldtradguy wrote: Our county has opened up the county parks finally. Jean and I went out Wednesday and Thursday to just TR a couple of climbs. We found out just so how out of shape we are for not doing anything in about 5-6 weeks of not climbing.

No pictures of us climbing since we were the only 2 people out there.

Picture of a 5.7 overhang that we did about 6 times each. Fingers were tender due to loss of callus.

Hopefully will start to get back into shape over the next couple of weeks.

John

That 5.7 overhang looks incredibly fun!!!!  I am glad to hear you guys are doing well and getting some fresh air!