Climbing in LCC during COVID-19

Mountain Dreamer wrote: 1) Sunlight kills the Coronavirus.

2) Hot weather kills the Coronavirus.

3) Rain in hot weather further kills the Coronavirus.

4) Humidity kills the Coronavirus.

5) Multi-pitch climbing allows for social distancing.

6) Climbing rocks strengthens the immune system.

7) Many doctors strongly recommend outdoor exercise during the COVID-19 pandemic.

8) Over 4,100 Utahns have tested positive for COVID-19 as of 4/27/2020. Actual cases are far greater because so many people have no symptoms whatsoever.

9) A grand total of 41 Utahns with COVID-19 have died as of 4/27/2020. Most of those had comorbidities.

10) A life outdoors is a life well lived.

Quoted in its entirety for posterity. The edit-and-rewrite-history virus is about to flare up in here... 

Mountain Dreamer wrote: 1) Sunlight kills the Coronavirus.

Source?

2) Hot weather kills the Coronavirus.

Source?

3) Rain in hot weather further kills the Coronavirus.

Source?

4) Humidity kills the Coronavirus.

Source?

5) Multi-pitch climbing allows for social distancing.

Explain how this is accomplished at belays.

6) Climbing rocks strengthens the immune system.

7) Many doctors strongly recommend outdoor exercise during the COVID-19 pandemic.

OK.

8) Over 4,100 Utahns have tested positive for COVID-19 as of 4/27/2020. Actual cases are far greater because so many people have no symptoms whatsoever.

So you're saying there  is a much larger group of people transmitting the virus.

9) A grand total of 41 Utahns with COVID-19 have died as of 4/27/2020. Most of those had comorbidities.

Relevance?

10) A life outdoors is a life well lived.

Sure.

Folks should understand the difference between mechanisms that actively kill a virus, and mechanisms that passively make it so a virus can not survive (inhospitable conditions). This goes for all types of viruses.

Disinfectants, such as ethanol, hydrogen peroxide quaternary ammonium can actively kill a virus. Ultraviolet light can also kill actively kill a virus, but there is a difference between UV in a laboratory setting and outside. Heat and humidity make the conditions inhospitable for a virus to survive for a long period of time. Viruses live longer indoors and in relative low humidity. Utah has relatively low humidity (even when we think it is humid, it is not that humid. We are just not used to it, when it hits 50%). Humidity also makes it harder for a virus to spread.

As for the recent, unpublished, non-peer reviewed, preliminary study. It is just that unpublished, non-peer reviewed, preliminary study that gives an indication that UV light, temperature and humidity is generally less favorable to a virus. So before thinking you are good to go by climbing in the sun remember that there are still many unknown links in how COVID-19 is transmitted.

I am not a virologist but understand some of the mechanisms. See some of Joe Prescott's posts in this thread: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118793977/coronavirus-on-a-crag-that-is-in-the-sun

Allen Sanderson wrote: Folks should understand the difference between mechanisms that actively kill a virus, and mechanisms that passively make it so a virus can not survive (inhospitable conditions). This goes for all types of viruses.

Disinfectants, such as ethanol, hydrogen peroxide quaternary ammonium can actively kill a virus. Ultraviolet light can also kill actively kill a virus, but there is a difference between UV in a laboratory setting and outside. Heat and humidity make the conditions inhospitable for a virus to survive for a long period of time. Viruses live longer indoors and in relative low humidity. Utah has relatively low humidity (even when we think it is humid, it is not that humid. We are just not used to it, when it hits 50%). Humidity also makes it harder for a virus to spread.

As for the recent, unpublished, non-peer reviewed, preliminary study. It is just that unpublished, non-peer reviewed, preliminary study that gives an indication that UV light, temperature and humidity is generally less favorable to a virus. So before thinking you are good to go by climbing in the sun remember that there are still many unknown links in how COVID-19 is transmitted.

I am not a virologist but understand some of the mechanisms. See some of Joe Prescott's posts in this thread: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118793977/coronavirus-on-a-crag-that-is-in-the-sun

Why Allen... WTF have you been reading?    

Mountain Dreamer wrote:

The W.H.O. said the Coronavirus is not transmittable from person to person.

The W.H.O. said face masks do not reduce the spread of viruses from person to person.

Decide for yourself.

I hope you can think deeper than that.

The CEO of IBM once said there's maybe a market for a dozen computers in the world. It wasn't dumb or wrong at the time - it was just based on whatever he knew at the time.

Taking what you know now, applying it to the past and concluding that whoever thought different was dumb is just.... well also dumb.

Mountain Dreamer wrote: The W.H.O. got it wrong.

Science gives us data.
Valid data is worth considering.
People (including scientists) give us conclusions.
People (including scientists) have a long history of drawing the wrong conclusions from the data.
Be careful what conclusions you draw from the data.

Isn't it refreshing to know that the entire point of science is to continuously improve upon existing data/facts/conclusions/theories/laws!?!

Much better than something that never evolves over time and sticks to baseless beliefs.

I'm sure the WHO has been warning of a global pandemic for years. Did we listen? Did we instead de-fund our pandemic response?

Mountain Dreamer wrote:

The W.H.O. knew what they were saying was incorrect.

Covering my mouth when I have a virus is not new information.
I knew covering my nose and mouth when I had a virus in me would prevent the spread of it to another person when I was 5 years old.

Ah yes, good 'ol common sense.

I would strongly recommend the reading of Freakonomics. It has a wealth of nice examples that help explain why, when you take things at scale, good 'ol common sense tend to let us down.

My favorite example - kindergardens. They got pissed of having to deal with parents constantly being late. Educators are typically poorly paid, don't want to stay there for an extra hours every other day, plus they tend to have thin margings to begin with. So they thought - we're just going to put a fine if you're late. Surely that'll lessen the tendency for parents to be late, right? Well, mostly wrong, apparently. Turns out parents don't like being late either and they already know that it pisses people off. So most parents saw the imposition of a fine (say, 20 bucks) as giving legitimacy to them being late. So in many cases, cases of late pickups INCREASED with a fine as opposed to no fine.

Similarly with masks, face covering. Of course good 'ol common sense will say fuck yeah, masks on. Though depending how it's implemented, it may have side effects, which may or not help, overall. For exemple, do people keep putting hands to their faces (as they are unused to masks and find it unconfortable), do they just keep using the same cesspool days after day and end up cultivating diseases rather than avoiding them, do they buy stuff that should go to healthcare workers and create problems there instead, do people start thinking they can drop other recommandations they don't like because they wear a mask and think it protects them, etc.

Mountain dreamer for the win! 

trailridge wrote: Mountain dreamer for the win! 

Are you high? 

Science does everything he said it doesn’t do through the scientific method. 
WTFs the point of increasing your pandemic response budget of you have no one to head the response?

B P wrote:

Are you high? 

Not yet. Killer mountain bike ride tonight. Lungs need a break. 

Mountain Dreamer wrote:

Science cannot improve data. Technology can improve data. Some examples of this include more accurate and precise measurement devices and methods.

Science cannot improve conclusions. People can improve conclusions. The improvement of conclusions is the result of philosophy.

Science cannot improve theories. People can improve theories. New theories are more often inferior to a particular older theory.

Science cannot improve facts. Facts cannot change. Facts are discovered.

Science cannot improve (scientific) laws. Scientific laws cannot change. Scientific laws are discovered.

The W.H.O. has NOT been warning of a global pandemic for years.
The W.H.O. even dismissed the likelihood of a global pandemic originating from a virus in Wuhan, China.
The U.S. federal government increased the pandemic response budget 3 years ago.
Utah has increased the pandemic response budget for the past 20 years.

Critical thinking skills are clearly on the decline.

AI FTW

that's artificial intelligence for the win, in case you couldn't come to that conclusion

Well said Mountain Dreamer

I was in Provo two weeks ago for a family emergency (I live in Los Angeles). While there I took my nieces and nephews hiking in Rock Canyon. I saw at least 30 people climbing, many them in groups. It was disappointing to see. There's definitely a small minority of people in so cal still climbing, but I was shocked to see groups of 6+ people cragging at the first three walls.

1Rob Dizzle wrote: I was in Provo two weeks ago for a family emergency (I live in Los Angeles). While there I took my nieces and nephews hiking in Rock Canyon. I saw at least 30 people climbing, many them in groups. It was disappointing to see. There's definitely a small minority of people in so cal still climbing, but I was shocked to see groups of 6+ people cragging at the first three 

Oh my...while hiking I saw others enjoying the outdoors. But in so cal we are so progressive we stay inside.  How disappointing those Utards are.