Top Rope Soloing Questions

Oh look! Another overly complicated TRS thread!
If you want ONE DEVICE, that will do everything, Trango Vergo, and tie a single backup knot. If you want ultra safe, and ultra smooth, use a CT roll n lock, and. Micro trax. With bungee cord around neck. 

To add an additional option, one that I looked for forever based on two requirements. 1. No neck loop, and 2. No teeth on the primary device. I ended up with the Camp Goblin for my main device, and a Edelrid Spoc extended on a sling for my backup.

The Goblin is an industrial device, so it's even more bomber than the GriGri. It also runs perfect on the rope while climbing, and only needs about a half full nalgene tied off on the rope for it to work smooth at the start. Best TRS device of all time, imo. It is expensive, but will last forever.

Something no one has mentioned, I recommend clove hitching to pro no more than 40ish feet apart, otherwise rope stretch will be pretty big, even on a static line, and ridiculously big with a dynamic line. Most 90-100 ft routes just need one, maybe two clove hitches. Also, you need a clove hitch under any protrusions, bulges, or roofs to keep your rope from getting shredded. Something to look out for.

Artem Vasilyev wrote:

Look dude, I use a lift and microtrax for my personal system - but two microtraxs simply work better and you have no objective evidence that they can both fail (I'm buying a second here in a bit). We're self belaying on a fixed line here, let's not pretend like this is hardcore - we all have different systems. 

I will admit that I speak in hyperbole/shorthand. To clarify, I think two microtraxs are the best balance of function vs safety system. You can always be "safer" but it comes with a big trade off in functionality and effort. Two lines are clunky and a massive pain in the ass imo if you're on anything overhung. And you have to hump those ropes around.

More power to you for finding a system you're comfortable with. I think we're both trying to encourage the OP to do the same thing by exploring different options and deciding which one he likes best. 

And sure, I don't have objective evidence of both microtraxxions failing at the same time. My point was merely that I think (and feel, because we do make subjective decisions about safety) that it's worth considering this factor (amongst many other generally more important ones) when planning one's setup. If you don't think so, that's perfectly fine. The OP, as a newbie, should make up his own mind about its relative importance. If you think that's taking things too seriously, cool. I think it's avoiding complacency. Now the OP knows it's a little more grey than B&W.

Anyhow, to continue our friendly disagreement, I haven't found two lines to be any more clunky or a PITA than one. No more rope humping than usual, since I'm usually at short crags and a 60m gives me two 30m strands. I find it easier to re-work sections of routes too, because I can just attach my descender onto the backup strand and then disengage my primary device :)

Max R wrote: Oh look! Another overly complicated TRS thread!
If you want ONE DEVICE, that will do everything, Trango Vergo, and tie a single backup knot. If you want ultra safe, and ultra smooth, use a CT roll n lock, and. Micro trax. With bungee cord around neck.

I use the exact same set-up, but with two Microtrax.  I use a 4% stretch static rope or a dynamic rope. The canyoneering/low stretch ropes have too little stretch. Dynamic ropes make me give up too much altitude when I fall.  

I am playing around with a Torse and an ascender as the top piece and a Microtrax as my backup. Haven't actually climbed with it yet, but it look like it will be slightly less hassle than the two traxions.

I use a petzl croll (chest ascender) as my primary device. It works great, although you definitely need some sort or chest harness with it. I use it with a static rope. A Climbing Technology Rollnlock is my secondary device. My system works great and I got both devices for less than the cost of a new microtrax.

Max R wrote: Oh look! Another overly complicated TRS thread!
If you want ONE DEVICE, that will do everything, Trango Vergo, and tie a single backup knot. If you want ultra safe, and ultra smooth, use a CT roll n lock, and. Micro trax. With bungee cord around neck.

I use pretty much the same setup as in the image above. The upper device Is a camp lift and the lower one is a rollnlock. To rappel I just add grigri below the lower device, remove that device, and weigh the grigri to remove the upper one. I also keep a jumar in my harness to make transferring to the grigri easier, if I can't use the wall to pull myself up.

I often use two ends of the rope to have each device on it's own rope, but in that situation the rope is always fixed into the anchor I've built and never just threaded through as that would make it pointless to use two devices.

I assume you know it can happen, but to anyone considering a croll I feel compelled to mention "Petzl Croll self opening situation" on YouTube. The old basic, or petzl ascension, has a top hole you can clip to keep the rope captive.

Ma Ja wrote: To add an additional option, one that I looked for forever based on two requirements. 1. No neck loop, and 2. No teeth on the primary device. I ended up with the Camp Goblin for my main device, and a Edelrid Spoc extended on a sling for my backup.

Really interested in this set up, but when I looked into it, I came away with the impression that the Goblin wouldn't work well as the primary because it can move both up and down the rope freely, which could create a failure mode for the backup if it were to land on top of it in the wrong way. Is that why you have the Spoc extended on a sling for your backup? Any additional beta or thoughts you have on this setup would be great!

Chris Stocking wrote:

Really interested in this set up, but when I looked into it, I came away with the impression that the Goblin wouldn't work well as the primary because it can move both up and down the rope freely, which could create a failure mode for the backup if it were to land on top of it in the wrong way. Is that why you have the Spoc extended on a sling for your backup? Any additional beta or thoughts you have on this setup would be great!

The Goblin locks up quick no matter what setting you have it on, but if you dont need to down climb for any reason, then leave it in ascension mode. This keeps the device cammed the whole time, and it still moves easily up the line. I leave it in this mode all the time. 

The reason I need to extend my backup is becasue I dont wear any type of bungee around my neck to keep the Goblin upright, which is the main appeal to me for this device. The fact that the Goblin has no teeth means I dont need to keep it tracking upright, and can take falls without damaging the rope. So, if you want your backup close, then you would need to add a neck chord. But, the Goblin is so bomber that having the Spoc extended is not worrisome at all. The Goblin catches immediately and I've yet to experience any slipping.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118640269/favorite-top-rope-solo-device?page=6#ForumMessage-118746943

This thread has a lot of info and a wide array of opinions on what's best. To me, hands down the Goblin is the tool for the job, but it's pricey, so weigh your options. Omni Pro Gear had them on sale when I bought mine, and ebay has a guy selling them for a similar price.

Personally I have just used a gri gri with backup knots tied every so often and stay on relatively easy routes.  No issues other than having to pull slack through.  The setters in the gym I go to set all the routes using that method actually.  Trying a micro traxion setup next outing.

Keep in mind the goblin doesn't come with a shock pack ( unlike the asap) because it's designed to slide down the rope a small amount to dynamically stop the fall.  This likely wouldn't be true with the goblin on ascent mode mind you.  But yes, the goblin is what you want for soloing.  

Also, the greatest risk to the rope access worker is cut lines.   So it would make more sense to me to have 2 fixed ropes,and one device on each.  
If you can see the value in using 2 devices you should also be able to see the value in having 2 ropes.  

be safe out there.  

Franco McClimber wrote: Keep in mind the goblin doesn't come with a shock pack ( unlike the asap) because it's designed to slide down the rope a small amount to dynamically stop the fall.  This likely wouldn't be true with the goblin on ascent mode mind you.  But yes, the goblin is what you want for soloing.  

Also, the greatest risk to the rope access worker is cut lines.   So it would make more sense to me to have 2 fixed ropes,and one device on each.  
If you can see the value in using 2 devices you should also be able to see the value in having 2 ropes.  

be safe out there.  

That is noteworthy for sure, but if you are mindful of features your rope is running across, and clove hitching below any obvious wear points that may damage your rope, then you can mitigate the potential for a cut line that way. When I do use a double strand, I tend to have my main line attached to the pro, and the backup is just floating out in space (on overhanging routes, 95% of my tr soloing). This way, you don't have the potential for a confusing twisted mess at each clip in point, but youd go for a swing if you were ever caught by your backup only. So, consider the consequences of both options.

Ma Ja wrote:

That is noteworthy for sure, but if you are mindful of features your rope is running across, and clove hitching below any obvious wear points that may damage your rope, then you can mitigate the potential for a cut line that way. When I do use a double strand, I tend to have my main line attached to the pro, and the backup is just floating out in space (on overhanging routes, 95% of my tr soloing). This way, you don't have the potential for a confusing twisted mess at each clip in point, but youd go for a swing if you were ever caught by your backup only. So, consider the consequences of both options.

This is true.  A rebelay is pretty important.  You see, i climb on rockies limestone.  Sharp ass edges everywhere so im overly paranoid.  

 It seems like micro trux backup is most commonly use but also most expensive. Any reason Camp Lift  or Rollnlock can’t be used as backup? 

Both of those are great. 

Normalement, j'utilise et recommanderais une corde dynamique pour alléger le chargement dynamique de vos appareils. Mais comme supposez que deux microtrax sont le pari le plus sûr et le plus fluide, utilisez un cordon élastique attaché à un harnais de poitrine pour le maintenir en douceur. J'utilise une boucle de 7 mm attachée avec des pêcheurs doubles à travers mes points d'attache. J'y attache un microtraxion avec un casier.
Vous devez utiliser une corde dynamique. Un ascendeur de base est une alternative efficace et bon marché à tous les appareils coûteux proposés.

normajean wrote:  It seems like micro trux backup is most commonly use but also most expensive. Any reason Camp Lift  or Rollnlock can’t be used as backup? 

A camp lift shouldn't be used as a backup device unless it is on another line.  If you are just using a single rope and the upper devices doesn't engage there is a chance the upper device will keep the Lift from engaging due to the way the camming action works.  A rollnlock would be fine.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

A camp lift shouldn't be used as a backup device unless it is on another line.  If you are just using a single rope and the upper devices doesn't engage there is a chance the upper device will keep the Lift from engaging due to the way the camming action works.  A rollnlock would be fine.

This. Also, I use sometimes use the Camp lift and backup it up with a gri gri. That way I can ascend and then descend with some ease, its not ideal for 90 feet but a 10 foot crux section its not too bad. In fact if you can climb a section this way, you can definitely do it on redpoint because you are kinda forced to pull double the slack or you have this weird loop form in your way. But a better version of this would be to mount your gri-gri to your chest and have a eldrid micro trax as a backup which I also do, but this makes it much much harder to ascend the rope. 

One thing that never gets mentioned in these threads is that either have a way to get down the rope or ascend the rope. The first time I tried, I didn't fully understand how to ascend efficiently and got stuck swinging 3 feet off the ground. As I was swinging my wife started calling me, my phone was on my backpack two feet below me. I had to crawl out of my chest harness to call my wife back. It was the most jerry moment in my climbing career only matched by my first day climbing and taking a whipper on 5.6 chimney. 

Trevor Taylor wrote:

This. Also, I use sometimes use the Camp lift and backup it up with a gri gri. That way I can ascend and then descend with some ease, its not ideal for 90 feet but a 10 foot crux section its not too bad. In fact if you can climb a section this way, you can definitely do it on redpoint because you are kinda forced to pull double the slack or you have this weird loop form in your way. But a better version of this would be to mount your gri-gri to your chest and have a eldrid micro trax as a backup which I also do, but this makes it much much harder to ascend the rope. 

Grigris suck as the primary device because you need to pull the rope through unless/until you have a BIG weight on the bottom. But they're even worse as a backup below the primary device, because it doesn't feed, which means it brings the rope up with it, which means your upper primary device doesn't move up either. So if you're determined to use your Grigri, run it on a second line.

Gunkiemike wrote:

Grigris suck as the primary device because you need to pull the rope through unless/until you have a BIG weight on the bottom. But they're even worse as a backup below the primary device, because it doesn't feed, which means it brings the rope up with it, which means your upper primary device doesn't move up either. So if you're determined to use your Grigri, run it on a second line.

Thats why I only use it for 10 feet (camp on top and gri gri on bottom). When gri gri on top and microtrax below it does pool which sucks. When I used two rope strands and lean in sometimes I end up between two ropes and its awkward, or pull the wrong rope when trying to pull slack through the grigri because I am leaning and looking away, or being an idiot stand on a ledge with one foot on one rope and your stumped why you can't move. Broadly the gri gri isn't great and hard to back up  but in specific use cases its okay.