COVID: What do you consider recreational travel?

In my county, you are technically only allowed to use human power to get to your recreational destination.

I've been working on various bike, hike link-ups and beach bouldering. When I was a kid I had a surf rack on my bike and may try to find one as that would add one more sport I can legally do. Of course, there are tons of people coming into our beach town that are not following the rules with tickets and fines being handed out (sparsely at this point). There are some great hikes in the next town, which I have driven to--but will probably start adding the bike for transport...anyway, trying to find new challenges in a strange time.

One cool thing is that some of the smaller roads that access state and federal parks are closed to vehicle traffic but open to bicycles and hikers. It's pretty amazing to have these roads to yourself without cars...could get used to that.

Natalie M wrote: Yes, 21,500 deaths seem like a lot of people for this country,  that is until you look at the total stats. 55k-65k die from the flu every season, 47k from suicide. Total # of deaths?  2,813,503 or less than 1% of US population (2017).  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

Colorado has about 600 car accident deaths per year and current COVID-19 deaths are under 300 and may reach 600 in a month. Government is saving lives by asking us not to drive!

This is a specious false equivalence. Automobile accident, suicide, and influenza deaths aren't increasing exponentially, nor are the first two contagious.

Two days ago we surpassed 2000 deaths per day. Assuming a starting point of 20500 deaths - about what it was then - a rate of 2000/day will give you over 78000 deaths in 30 days. Quite a number of states won't hit their peak rate for another 2-3 weeks.        

55k-65k die from the flu every season, 47k from suicide.

That is per year. 21,500 covid-19 deaths seems small in comparison, until you realize that is since Feb 29, less than 6 weeks. Covid-19 deaths will swamp both of those numbers by the end of the year.

Wayne Curr wrote: More of a general comment on climber's attitudes than an attack on him. Point being, if you have to ask STAY HOME.

https://www.outtherecolorado.com/climber-gets-stranded-in-boulder-amid-covid-19-stay-at-home-order/

With those areas now unavailable, Utah climbers have turned their sights on American Fork Canyon and Little Cottonwood Canyon’s boulder fields and Gate Buttress. These sites are seeing plenty of action now. sltrib.com/news/environment…

But the message finally seems to be getting through, so that's good. Not even a month ago...

http://www.thundercling.com/2020/03/the-pandemic-comes-to-bishop-a-small-climbing-community-struggles-beneath-the-weight-of-covid-19/

But then you still have this:

naw scl wrote:

The difference is, when climbers talk about "evaluating risk with more nuance" they rely on centuries (or more) of combined experience (at least in theory).

In the case of covid-19, this is the second global pandemic close to this scale in 100 years. The experts are doing their best, but this is uncharted territory. Ignoring that fact is idiotic and is antithetical to the analogy of risk in climbing.

Attacking aggressive implementation of the ONLY effective measure we currently have as "mob virtue signaling" and "martial law" is beyond idiotic.

Over 21,500 dead plus 2,000 more every day mostly due to failed leadership while many fellow climbers (and other great humans) risk their lives to save others. But if anyone asks you to stay home or insults you for not, be sure to scream fascism for god's sake.

No, it is unprecedented. Think about our ability to get this around the world in hours, not weeks. That didn't exist in 1918, or at any other time before now. The stuff that came up since, was smaller, and contained. 

Hey everyone,

Some good points made here! I was reading another article (still bored), and saw something interesting, maybe you have some thoughts?

The idea is that when hiking/biking/skiing etc, you don't touch common touch objects in nature, so the risk of infection is lower, especially if you cover your face.

But with climbing you put your hands on the rock, right were other people have (especially at crowded sport or bouldering crags) potentially increasing infection. So is climbing more irresponsible in this time than hiking or biking? Lets hear those opinions (I know you're bored too).

Edit: can chalk dry up the coronavirus?

Wayne Curr wrote:
That is per year. 21,500 covid-19 deaths seems small in comparison, until you realize that is since Feb 29, less than 6 weeks. Covid-19 deaths will swamp both of those numbers by the end of the year.

Government estimate now is around 60k (down from 100-200k previously).  Mortality rate is very low under the age of 60 and for people without comorbidities.  As the healthiest state in the union (WA, UT not far behind), Colorado doesn't compare to the situation in NYC, LA, IL, MI, etc. In fact, getting out will help our already strong immune system vs *embracing * the sedentary lifestyle of the drive-through states

Doug S wrote:

Ours are shut down.

Friggin Fascists. Being Colorado, pot shops and liquor store are considered "essential"

Barf

Natalie M wrote: 

Government estimate now is around 60k (down from 100-200k previously).  Mortality rate is very low under the age of 60 and for people without comorbidities.

:

"Even though the fatality rate is low for younger people, it is very clear that any suggestion of COVID-19 being just like influenza is false: even for those aged 20–29 years, once infected with SARS-CoV-2, the mortality rate is 33 times higher than that from seasonal influenza." 

In fact, getting out will help our already strong immune system...

Maybe you missed the part about this being the novel coronavirus? Meaning humans have never had it before, so no immunity and a "strong immune system" is irrelevant.

Marc801 C wrote: 
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927870 :
Maybe you missed the part about this being the novel coronavirus? Meaning humans have never had it before, so no immunity and a "strong immune system" is irrelevant.

Maybe it's irrelevant,  however Crested Butte has the highest infection rate per capita and the lowest death rate in the world. 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish

In Germany, the rate is about 0.33% once all asymptomatic cases are counted

https://spectator.us/covid-antibody-test-german-town-shows-15-percent-infection-rate/

Dane Butler wrote: I drive ~25 minutes, or 15 miles, each way to the crag and of course practice proper social distancing techniques while there 

Fucking christ guys, if you're climbing outside right now please stop spraying about it on the internet, or ticking it on the proj, or anything else. Fact is that if you are climbing outside right now at an empty or uncrowded crag, it is probably because most of us are trying to do the responsible thing and stay home. Don't encourage people! I don't really give a shit about a handful of people recreating responsibly at some chosspile, but if it is encouraged it would pretty quickly become irresponsible. As we have already seen in many areas.

and half an hour EACH WAY for sure falls under "recreational travel" in my book for what its worth.

yeah, you right. poor form there on my part 

The Colorado stay at home order says you can recreate within your county (or within about 3 miles of it) provided you maintain a 6 foot distance while recreating. I believe this is a good metric for recreational travel, stay in your county and avoid contact with people not in your household.

Natalie M wrote:

Maybe it's irrelevant,  however Crested Butte has the highest infection rate per capita and the lowest death rate in the world. 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-lockdown-please-w-re-swedish

In Germany, the rate is about 0.33% once all asymptomatic cases are counted

https://spectator.us/covid-antibody-test-german-town-shows-15-percent-infection-rate/

I think it would be wise to avoid talking about the infection rate until we have effective surveillance with widespread random sampling in place. Unfortunately the current administration doesn't seem to understand why this is important, so we can't expect a federal effort any time soon, but it will certainly be happening at the state level.  

My opinion is this. Not everyone is going to stay home. So if you do want to go out. I wouldn’t advertise on social media. And if you do, don’t be surprised when people get upset and have something to say about it. Get everything you would need together at home so you don’t need to make any stops other than your main destination. Go on your hike, go climb what ever it is your going to do, enjoy it, then go home, and wash your motherfuckin hands

Alex Z wrote: The Colorado stay at home order says you can recreate within your county (or within about 3 miles of it) provided you maintain a 6 foot distance while recreating. I believe this is a good metric for recreational travel, stay in your county and avoid contact with people not in your household.

The front range is difficult due to the sheer volume of people but it is possible to play by the rules in place and still get out and have fun.

Imo the proximity of “local” is determined by your gas tank.  If you have to go to an out of area gas station, you’re going to far.

Christopher Smaling wrote: Imo the proximity of “local” is determined by your gas tank.  If you have to go to an out of area gas station, you’re going to far.

Bullshit, someone from LA could go to the eastside and back on one tank of gas. with good mpg.

Danny Poceta wrote:

Bullshit, someone from LA could go to the eastside and back on one tank of gas. with good mpg.

If they don’t talk to anyone or visit local businesses, what’s the problem?  (Also, I don’t think anyone will make it to bishop and back on one tank).  Isn’t a place that is 90 minutes away but has no crowds preferable to a place that is 5 minutes away but is very crowded?

Christopher Smaling wrote:

If they don’t talk to anyone or visit local businesses, what’s the problem?  (Also, I don’t think anyone will make it to bishop and back on one tank).  Isn’t a place that is 90 minutes away but has no crowds preferable to a place that is 5 minutes away but is very crowded?

“Stay at home” is a shitty tag line.  “Stay away from other people and shared surfaces” is better. 

The problems of non-locals visiting places like Bishop has been well documented elsewhere so I won't bring it up again. I agree my example may not have been the best.

I still disagree with your gas-tank metric for local. Someone could easily add: "if I don't talk to anyone or visit local businesses, and use a sanitary wipe at the gas station, what's the problem?" And the reality is that at this point the "problem" is much deeper that just what you touch or who you talk to. There are a ton of ways to make yourself "the exception" when travelling for climbing.... the problem is that if everyone is the exception, then nobody is. To me it is kind of like voting. Your one vote isn't making a real difference, but the collective whole is effective. If every climber decides they can climb outside safely right now, it would become unsafe real quick.