Gear placement practice

Hello amazing climbers that I hope to grow up and be like one day! Myself and my best buddy are relatively new to climbing. We are older (late 50’s early 60’s), and have been outdoor sport and top rope climbing for about 18 months.  We are looking to expand our skills into trad climbing and want to find some place in Nor Cal that is good for practicing gear placement. We live in the Central Valley (blah) about 2.5 hrs from yosemite valley floor and 3 hours from Tuolumne meadows. Would love to hear your thoughts on those areas as well as other locations in the Bay Area/Nor Cal that we can hit on weekends.  While I dream of being cool and doing over hangs and the like, if I can develop the skills to do a 5.7 multi-pitch trad climb I will be in heaven. i never dreamed I would be climbing  but my god, what a rush and a sense of peace all at once. I welcome all thoughts. Thanks in advance. 

Oh boy... get your popcorn ready

Hi Brian. What does that mean?

Kat Snyder wrote: Hi Brian. What does that mean?

Unfortunately in Covid-19 times it mean a ton of people are going to start telling you to stay home. Then start arguing about what "Local" means. You might get 2-3 actual answers out of all the MP bullcrap. 

Hi Kat. There's a whole crew of us up here in the Sonora Pass area that climb a lot. We range from five years to more than 40 years of climbing experience. And it seems that Sonora Pass is pretty close to where you live.

It's not quite the season for climbing in our high country, but it's coming soon. Maybe consider joining us over Memorial Weekend? We usually have a group of 10 to 20 people that weekend, from beginners to very experienced. Locals and people from as far away as Fresno or the Bay Area. And no crowds climbing on this pass. Feel free to email me through this site if you're interested.

Of course all our plans and "normal" activities might not go as usual in this very odd year. But we'll see.

Oh, and as for gear placement practice? I've always thought that finding 5.10 and/or 5.11 cracks and aiding them (with clean gear - not pitons) is a fantastic way to learn how to place gear.

Every piece you place will have to take your body weight. Do a crack on aid and then aid it with only stoppers and then with only cams. You'll learn quickly what will hold, what might hold, and what won't hold.

Best of luck.

Hi Brad! Thanks for your help and thanks for the offer. It will be nice if we can get out by the end of May! I’m not going anywhere at this point... just passing the time by learning and investigating.  I have a super stressful job and my work is essential in the eyes of the state so I am out in it everyday, and this is a way to unwind.  I was just reading about the aid climbing thing as a way to learn. we will have to investigate that more.  As for that whole issue of local vs. visitor and the people who are clearly jerks on these boards, they can spew their unkindness. I have no time for that  beyond a moment of wonder of what folks get out of being unkind.  At the end of the day I am gonna go out and live life, enjoy the good people I meet and the beautiful places I get to go. 

Or walk along the base of a crag, stick some crap in a crack, clip a sling to it and stand up!  Get a buddy to spot you.

Fyi.  Dont, i repeat dont stare at the piece when you test it.  Lol

Good luck and safe climbing. 

Standing on pieces is a good way to test holding power if you were to fall straight down, but also place the piece, clip in, and from above move the rope around to simulate the direction and amount of force as you climb above piece. Learning how pro will either “walk” or lift out of the placement is a critical piece of the puzzle. And in real lead climbing it isn’t always obvious which angle of rope movement above will pop out a lower piece.

Learn how long a sling is appropriate for each piece (longer isn’t always safer/better). An under utilized training technique is to lead on a top rope while trailing your “lead” rope; place gear, and from the top anchor belay your follower. This way the follower can give you feedback if the pro was still set well, and also if it was easy/difficult to remove. (While leading you should also remember your follower has to remove the piece; is it a good place for them to stand while removing the pro?)

You can learn a lot while never leaving the ground if you find some good cracks. Waiting to hop on a climb? Grab your rack and go to a crack and see how many of your pieces you can fit in the one crack.

But to answer your main Q, the Hogsback formation at Lovers Leap is a super location for your first leads. God only knows how many people took their first lead on Knapsack Crack. Hogsback has several good 5.5-5.6 routes. Just tell anyone behind you that you are a new leader and you won’t be moving fast; they’ll likely understand. And there are plenty of cracks to practice placements at the base of the climbs. LL isn’t super close to you, but it will be well worth the drive.

Final thought; while hanging around a trad area (or climbing) look at other climbers’ placements, especially if they are being pulled by the lead rope. There is a lot to be learned by just watching.

Climb on!

Lovers Leap is my recommendation, lots of good,  easier, not too long climbs with lots of gear placements in a beautiful setting. Check out knapsack crack. Or any number of other similsr climbs.

Kat- Welcome to the madness!

Over 50 you can check in here: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118352069/new-and-experienced-climbers-over-50-10

When we return to “Normal” I recommend you go check out TollHouse rock down by Fresno and when it warms up go to Fresno Dome- by Bass Lake- both places have EZ multi pitch where you can use your rack and not be to stressed out. But I wanna warn you first- Climbing is addicting! You will do anything to get your fix. I admit to driving 700 miles round trip just to get in a day’s worth of it. I have quit good jobs cause I really needed a big fix. I have walked out on hot GF’s before cause they wanted me to stay home with them. You will be happy to sleep in the dirt, camp out with no bathroom just so you can tie-in and have another go at “XXX” climb.
You have been warned.
  

Tollhouse rock just past Fresno is a good place to do some easy gear routes.
The Tollhouse Traverse is a ultra classic 3 pitch 5.5.

Thank you all for the info...hoping for a healthy country soon.

Yep. Lead aid. Enough said. I've led multipitch aid solo, and it's very exciting and rewarding.

Brad Young wrote: We usually have a group of 10 to 20 people... And no crowds climbing on this pass.

lol, wut?

To the OP, check out the Grotto near Sonora.  No beginner leads, but plenty of cracks to place gear, and you could aid climb several of them:
https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105734135/the-grotto

Ya for you. In my late 50s and rekindled a background in mountaineering with the idea to learn formal rock climbing. (with best friend, a woman, year older and never had any real backcountry experience. Big obstacle) Bodies a mess but what the heck at this age nothing to lose. She had young dream of returning as a ranger.
  Can't help with your area climbs. I can say this this though. I have been out with a mentor a few times but in between I studied hard. Too many books to name and online. Bought way beyond my budget good gear. keep in mind you have to be careful with what you learn first off! always double check. I have taken a path of doing easy 5's over and over on top wit the tail tied in as if on lead. I place pro and often clip in a runner and stomp on it. Remove runner and move up. On the way down. Often on repel I check placements and clean. Other times I belay from top and have her clean. All of this can be a bit of mess but teaches many things like rope management and racking of gear along with stamina. I also have been a odd thing by trying to place as much gear as possible. Looks odd but learning about stances and right pro. This has been working well for me as I'm pretty beat up. I also try and incorporate as many things as possible in each climb or even the scramble up the side like hiking in coils and hip belays.
  Don't forget to try and get some help and reviews from time to time from mentors to check you out. Be careful and have fun  

Hi john thank you for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I am doing a lot of reading too. In the past we have watch and spoken with other climbers and even had a few do impromptu coaching which was very helpful. We are hoping to take a private class when this whole virus stuff is finished. We have done a few guided climbs before and then climbed on own via top route or sport. We do not get put near as much as we would like...you have fun too!

Morning, sense you live close to Yosemite Valley, no better place to learn those skill sets you are looking for, ( when the park reopens)! Places like, Manure Pile, Five&Dime Cliff, Pat&Jack Pinnacle are great places to work on those skills. The Grotto area (Table Mt.) area with areas like the Senior wall is close to where you live and is a good place as well. Hope that was helpful stay safe and healthy hope we all get to going climbing real soon cheers happy climbing Mike A.

A couple of words of advice when you’re learning how to place gear:
1. always lead well below your climbing ability so that you can focus on gear placements instead of being gripped;
2. Consider a mock lead where you placed gear while on top rope; 
3. Practice place gear on the ground and then explain why your gear is perfect to your partner (you would be amazed at the mistakes you discover when you try to vocalize the reasons for your gear placements);
4. Practice building anchors on the ground as well;
5. Every time you place a piece of gear ask yourself if you could really trust your life to it… Because you may be trusting your life to it at any moment. It’s a good reminder to yourself why you place gear; 
6. If you happen to be in the area with experienced climbers ask one of them to follow you and critique your gear. You will find that most experienced climber’s are more than happy to help you.
7. Never be satisfied with a shitty gear placement unless you were absolutely positive there is nothing else better. Many beginners miss perfectly good gear placements that are inches away from shitty placements because they think that’s all there is. Look EVERYWHERE!