Pre-workout supplements for climbing

Fritz Nuffer wrote: Cordyceps sounds intriguing. What’s your preferred method of ingesting it? Is that MudWater drink any good?

MudWater is great and actually have some sitting on my work desk next to me right now. I'll often have a cup before climbing. Coffee gets me too jittery on headier leads. MudWater keeps my Elvis leg at bay. Yerba Mate works well for me too, but the MudWater gets you the added benefits from the Lion's Mane, Cordyceps, Chaga, Reishi, and Turmeric.

Left handed cigarettes 

I've had good experiences with the Transparent Labs pre-workout formulas (Bulk, Lean), both for low-energy indoor bouldering days (they contain caffeine), and for outdoor redpoint attempts (the beta-alanine and citrulline malate seem to help with recovery mid-route). The outdoor effect may or may not be real, but the indoor-psych effect is undeniable. 

Fritz Nuffer wrote: Cordyceps sounds intriguing. What’s your preferred method of ingesting it? Is that MudWater drink any good?

I've just started to take cordyceps before climbing and it seems to help with pump.  I do see more benefits during my cardio/supplemental workouts.  I am hoping it will help with long days in the mountains during the summer.  I have ordered MudWater before but can't get over the taste/texture to be an everyday thing.  However, I really like their dried coconut milk/MCT oil combo.  I add it to tea/coffee all the time.  

2 Aleve liquid gels 1-2 hours before climbing and a light snack one hour before.  Keeps me cranking those blue 5.8s at the gym all night.  
btw, I cut out beer and white sugar and dropped 15lbs in 2 months. Kept the Whiskey.  

Bob Doylewrote: Does anyone have supplements they like to take before climbing; either for single pitch sport sessions or longer multi pitch?

Creatine is a bit of a mixed bag: it definitely lets me push a bit harder, but only if I drink lots of water, and then added water weight can become a problem (i.e. it can make me feel bloated).

Beta alanine works great, but is pretty short-acting; probably only effective for shorter routes or boulders. There's also a lack of information on long-term safety.

Caffeine is well-established, but as others have noted, not great for head game. L-theanine is good for moderating the jitters, but not a perfect solution.

Fish oil is good for joints feeling good, and also for my head game, but if you look at the study evidence, the dosage is a lot higher than a lot of people are taking. Omega 9s are also pretty deficient in a lot of western diets and useful for energy--I take an omega 3-6-9 supplement which seems to make a pretty significant difference for me.

ADAM GRANTwrote: Physivantage might have what you are looking for.

With due respect for all I've learned from Hörst about training over the years, and while I don't begrudge him trying to make money, his nutritional supplements are more in the "probably doesn't hurt" category than the "shown to actually help" category. There are studies showing that his claims are true, but those studies haven't been independently replicated in most cases, and in a few cares there have been actual failures to replicate.

Doctor Chosswrote:

Coffee gets me too jittery on headier leads.

L-theanine moderates caffeine jitters pretty well, both in my experience and in peer-reviewed, replicated studies.

I advocate for the cordyceps as well. I take in in a tincture. Other supplements,  like spirulina and ginseng increase your stamina and energy as well. They are also adaptogens which help to regulate your adrenal gland, stabilizes your stress response and keep you focused. I feel like I get less gripped and stay calmer if I regularly use it. And am more patient with other stresses in life. 

That said, I dont really know the science and it could totally be a placebo... 

100 to 200 mg of caffeine in pill form depending on how hard I want to send. Crucial to not accidentally take melatonin instead of the caffeine pills.

I've had mixed success offsetting melatonin with more caffeine. Straightedge's speedball.

Vyvanse

Bob Doylewrote: Does anyone have supplements they like to take before climbing; either for single pitch sport sessions or longer multi pitch?

Currently I take a small amount of creatine and I am wondering if a NOX supplement or traditional weight lifting pre workouts are helpful, especially if I am feeling low energy and I want to feel super psyched because i’m going for a redpoint, project etc. 

best sups come from gorillamind.com

derek formulates them to be efficacious his yt chan has all the info #MPMD

Thanks for the suggestion! It's always helpful to know about reliable sources for supplements. Derek seems to have a good reputation for formulating effective products, and checking out his YouTube channel for more info sounds like a great idea.

Bob Doylewrote:

It’s not ‘JUST MARKETING’, there are actually many studies that indicate there are benefits to many products.  Im too lazy to cite them here but feel free to use the google. 

I get so sick of hearing the old man, get off my lawn, don’t try anything new bullshit. Especially without any sort of logical reasoning to back up your ego driven useless response. 

It’s fine to get frustrated with curmudgeonly skepticism, but if you really get into the weeds, there are hardly any supplements with legitimate scientific backing. By legitimate, I mean large-scale (more than a couple hundred subjects), prospective, double-blinded, randomized control trials - the standard for pharmaceutical stuff we put in our bodies.

And good luck finding those types of studies on climbers, specifically.

Protein and creatine are supported for strength gains in the bodybuilding literature, plus caffeine has been shown to be ergogenic for many different activities. And if you’re into long-term adverse effects, anabolic steroids and growth hormone will make you strong as well.

AFAIK, that’s about it. Admittedly, I haven’t done a lit search on this topic lately, but we really should demand actual science, instead of anecdotes, even if ”logic” tells you supplements should help. 

No idea why this thread revived, but reading my own post, I've learned a bit about creatine since then. I was taking it before I worked out previously but that's the wrong way to take it. Instead, I take it every day, regardless of whether I'm working out or not, so it can build up in my muscles. Taken this way the bloating goes away after a while and it works better.

Creatine is effective and well studied but it gives me a weird flash pump when I climb while taking it. Anyone else have this issue?

I've never had the flash pump issue from creatine that you're talking about, how much were you taking? I've found through the years with creatine that you do not need to pre-load (taking twice as much in first week), I think this is just a way to get you to need more product more quickly. Weight gain is going to happen if you're training well on it but I've always found an increase in strength to weight ratio that out matches the pure weight. Last time I used it I gained 7 pounds but added 12 lbs. to my max dead-hang and 30 lbs. to my max pullup. Weight dropped off within 2 weeks coming off with about 1/2 of the gains, so maybe there's a sweet spot in there for sending.

I've used NO2 supplements before for other sports (weightlifting, boxing) with good benefits but not for climbing. As others have mentioned, increased pump is not great for us. Caffeine is king of course, there's a reason its in almost everything marketed as a pre-supplement. I would probably take creatine more often but, honestly, I cannot force myself to drink enough water to use it safely in most cases. I'm pretty terrible about staying hydrated even when not using it. 

Final thing from doing long endurance sessions in other sports is that eating to keep up energy mid-workout is probably more important than a pre-workout. I found when I would do 2.5-3 hour boxing training, I was crashing without realizing it. My mind was up to the task but wasn't hungry so not eating. Once I started eating through the sessions I had better late session production and better recovery.

David Kwrote:

No idea why this thread revived…

Bots never sleep

Zach Anattawrote:
Also, taking creatine before a climb shouldn't be doing much, unless it's a brand that is loaded up with glucose and dextrose, in which case you're getting a sugar high (and whatever else is in it).  You can get creatine from Bulk Supplements for about the cost of kosher salt, so don't overpay for marketing hype.  The actual ceatine in a serving is about 1/10 of the weight of a serving in the brands you get at GNC, for instance.  You need to take creatine over the course of several days or weeks to build it up in your body, where it helps produce ATP.

I second this. No benefit to taking creatine as a pre-workout, as timing doesn’t have any impact on its benefits (therefore no harm in it either though). It’s one of the most widely studied supplements ever, and is safe and effective. But, I would say the benefits of creatine supplementation are far outweighed by the simple stuff: sleep, diet, training appropriately, managing stress, etc. 

Taurine in pill form, 1g or 2g taken before climbing works great for me. Feels like coffee without the jitters and anecdotally I would say it helps prevent getting pumped as fast. I learned about taurine while weightlifting where I would have crazy lower back pumps after heavy deadlift days, someone recommended taurine to help with the lower back pump and it worked like a charm. 

Especially since you’re mostly vegetarian, maybe look into some Whey Protein? This could fill some gaps that maybe your diet isn’t covering? Bringing a small cooler/lunch box with an ice pack and protein shake for after climbing sessions/workouts could be a positive addition.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Who is "mostly vegetarian"? Have you been afflicted with botulism?