Fabien Mathieu wrote: This article underline the fact that he is not that well known by the general public and this is mind blowing to me. Alex Honnold is a great climber and yes free soloing freerider is insane and makes for good TV shots but he can only dream of climbing what Ondra is climbing. I also like how speed climbing is descibed Vs. lead and boudering, the format of Tokyo olympics is a real shame but at least it was a way to be there as a sport. In Paris 2014 I heard the 3 disciplines will be separate so its gonna be awesome at last (and I will definitely not watch speed ;))
Where did you hear that climbing is even a guaranteed event in 2024? Final decisions on 2024 sports are due in December 2020?
The things Honnold and Ondra do are equally impressive to me, as they are both head and shoulders above what anyone else is doing. Ondra has a kinesthetic awareness and strength that is unique in the entire human species, and Honnold has an ability to control his mind while performing at a physical level which is elite while not quite super-elite, and that combination is also absolutely world-unique right now.
The difference really is that it's much easier to explain why free soloing El Cap is impressive to a non-climber than it is to explain how impressive 5.15d is. To be honest, I've free soloed up to 5.9 and redpointed up to 5.13b, and I really feel like I'm not qualified at all to evaluate just how insane either of them are.
I was not trying to launch a contest between honnold and ondra, it would be like asking people to chose between nadal and federer of between Samsung and apple: a never ending (pointless?) debate. I was just underlining the fact that Ondra should, at the very least, be as recognized as honnold (if not more but that’s my opinion) As for the format at Paris’s Olympics I thought it was a done deal, call it wishful thinking then, and thank me if the decision goes my way ;)
I edited my first post about that, so not to, potentially, mislead readers
The skiing downhill/mogul/jump combined events format analogy is excellent. It succinctly evinces how the 2020 Olympic combined climbing events competition format is a bastardization of the standard individual events competition format. And it is one I’ll definitely be borrowing in conversation with gawkers.
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The “long neck as a physiological advantage in foot pressure leverage” dynamic is pretty interesting as well.
I’d be eager to see the math, but it makes enough sense in principle: longer moment arm = more torque = more pressure on the feet? Maybe the arms too though? Would that be detrimental to hard sends?
Regardless, I’m definitely gonna be experimenting with it and seeing how much the head position alone changes how taxing a rest or move feels. Kind of embarassed that didn't feel more obviously important...
I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if the benefit of believing that physiological explanation, valid or not, was mostly due to placebo effect. The direct efficacy of experimenting with/embracing “acupuncture”, “Chinese medicine”, and “light filter eye shades” seems a little scientifically questionable, and possibly more indicative of a psychological than physiological boon.
Even if it is the case that those beliefs are mostly placebo, it’s still revelatory of just how willing Adam is to explore new ideas and see what feels helpful. And fortunately the rocks provide an objective barometer of what is and isn't working.
(Yes, his fingers have muscles. They're located in the palm and forearm. Same as all of us. But his fingers have MUSCLES, while ours only have “muscles”. I perked up at that line too, but after thinking about it for a minute, eased into a position that whether the phrase is interpreted literally or hyperbolically/poetically, it’s a valid statement.)
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That being said, if Olympic medals are representative of passion, hard work, pushing human limits, and pure devotion to the sport, hard to think of an Olympian who deserves an Olympic medal more than Adam. I’ll be rooting for him!
p.s. holy shit I hate the clunky formatting of the MP text editor on mobile.
to me the best takeaway are these 2 quotes, which I beleive represents was most in the climbing community have been saying since the format was announced. ...And as soon as the Olympics were over, he would never do the speed wall again. ...
...To him, climbing was never meant to be about muscle memory and speed. It was about problem solving and creativity. It was efficiency, daring, control. “The fact that you can climb in five seconds or six seconds has nothing to do with climbing,” Ondra said. “It’s a circus.”
Looks like they will split the speed from bouldering and difficulty in 2024. From an article in Climbing magazine :
"According to a video released by IOC Media, the format for Paris 2024 will expand the number of medals allotted to sport climbing to two per gender. The competition will therefore be divided by specialization. Bouldering and lead climbing will still be combined as one event, but speed climbing will be it's own separate event. The number of athletes will also almost double. Currently, the top climbers are competing to gain one of the 40 coveted spots (20 men and 20 women) available for Tokyo 2020. Paris 2024 will invite 72 athletes to compete. There will be 20 men and 20 women in the bouldering/lead event, and 16 men and 16 women in the speed event. "
Looks like they will split the speed from bouldering and difficulty in 2024. From an article in Climbing magazine :
"According to a video released by IOC Media, the format for Paris 2024 will expand the number of medals allotted to sport climbing to two per gender. The competition will therefore be divided by specialization. Bouldering and lead climbing will still be combined as one event, but speed climbing will be it's own separate event. The number of athletes will also almost double. Currently, the top climbers are competing to gain one of the 40 coveted spots (20 men and 20 women) available for Tokyo 2020. Paris 2024 will invite 72 athletes to compete. There will be 20 men and 20 women in the bouldering/lead event, and 16 men and 16 women in the speed event. "
Scott Biegert wrote: I would say Tommy Caldwell, Alex Honnold and Lynn Hill are all better climbers. This may be subjective but I believe they are all around better climbers.
Or better yet, pay for what you consume. The NYT is a great source for news.
True that.
I have nothing against getting around paywall in some occasions, but to me the bar has to be higher than just "fuck it's the internet, should be free". I think journalism is a good case in point.
I'm still going to download GOT & the likes though.
Tradiban wrote: The Olympic format is an insult to climbing and I find it a little sad that Ondra even cares about attending.
Yeah.
But then he's from Czech Republic, which internationally doesn't get that much sun. There's certainly a pride in saying I can got out there and make my country the best of the world at something for a moment.
Not that I can personally relate to that thinking (not much of a nationalist, I think the whole national pride thing is kind of stupid honestly), but I can see how that would affect the thinking, regardless of olympic format & the likes....
Tradiban
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Mar 7, 2020
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2004
· Points: 11,610
Franck Vee wrote:
Yeah.
But then he's from Czech Republic, which internationally doesn't get that much sun. There's certainly a pride in saying I can got out there and make my country the best of the world at something for a moment.
Not that I can personally relate to that thinking (not much of a nationalist, I think the whole national pride thing is kind of stupid honestly), but I can see how that would affect the thinking, regardless of olympic format & the likes....
The Olympics are rarely showcasing the true "best" at anything and the climbing format is no different.
Scott Biegert wrote: I would say Tommy Caldwell, Alex Honnold and Lynn Hill are all better climbers. This may be subjective but I believe they are all around better climbers.
Not sure if you are:
a) trolling b) clueless c) have a knowledge of the climbing world that is limited to having watched Valley Uprising, The dawn wall and Free solo
The Olympics are rarely showcasing the true "best" at anything and the climbing format is no different.
You miss the point, and anyways the point you raise is mostly false.
Michels Phelps won a bunch of gold medals in a bunch of different distances, but yeah, you're right, he wasn't the best swimmer at those distances. Carl Lewis dominating the olympics and set multiple world records, but not, for sure, not close to be the best of his games. What you say is true for stuff like hockey, basketball & some others. Usain Bolt rocked his distances & relays too, but hey, it's not like he performed in anyways outside the weak olympic bubble.
If you going to troll your argument, please at least try for real, I'm kind of insulted.
At any rate, "The best" in that case is about perception. From a global perspective, no one really knows much about professional climbing. IFSC has 169k subscribers on youtube. The olympics will be, from a global perspective, the first time competitive climbing is even a thing and whoever wins that will be considered the best climber, from that moment. It will remain so (subconciously) for most people until they remember again competitive climbing is a thing 4 years laters, in much the same way I keep remembering/forgetting that some people wear super long ice skates & chase each others on ice rings while trying to make each others fall without it looking to voluntary. Few of these people care about the fact that speed climbing is pretty much unrelated to bouldering, barely comparable to lead climbing and that all of that is only just indoor artificial climbing anyways. If (and I'm not pretending I know Ondra's mind on this, thought in interviews he does seem to hint at being rather proud of where he comes from) Ondra's doing this partly related to national pride, I'm sure given of choice as to be Tradiban's perception of the best, or the rest of the world, the rest of the world will triumph. Sorry if that hurts your ego....
Or he may just do it because he knows all the name recognition & sponsor money that will come out of this & following this will ensure that whatever greater and more interesting project he has in mind for real climbing will be much, much easier to get off the ground after he crushes it, even though he dislikes the format and may even agree that there's little correlation between whoever wins the climbing olympics and who's the best climber at this time. Whatever that title actually means - even setting aside the olympic saga, there's a number of different ways one could define best climber, many of which may point to Ondra but a lot of which wouldn't....
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