Unusual rope solo technique?

The other day I saw a guy rappelling a rope solo he'd just led. The rope was anchored on the ground to a big tree, and he had clove-hitched his rope to each piece. To my eye it seemed like he was creating the opportunity for a factor 2 fall onto each piece, because the rope was tied to (not clipped through) each piece.  I've never rope soloed, so I didn't say anything, but am I missing something? Is this a standard practice? I'd always understood that you used a device on your harness to actually belay yourself, with the gear clipped in the standard running fashion as if you were doing a normal lead, and that you clove-hitched a long loop on the sharp end side of the rope to your harness in case the belay device failed... 

Sounds dodgy. How was he attached to the rope?

I’m having a hard time understanding how this worked, did he use a device or clove hitch to attach himself to the rope and adjust it as he went, while clove hitching each piece instead of clipping normally? That sounds wack, he probably just didn’t really get what to do.

Older not Bolder wrote: Sounds dodgy. How was he attached to the rope?

I didn't see him climbing, only rappelling 

Katarina Owens wrote: I’m having a hard time understanding how this worked, did he use a device or clove hitch to attach himself to the rope and adjust it as he went, while clove hitching each piece instead of clipping normally? That sounds wack, he probably just didn’t really get what to do.

It must have been that, I guess the belay part wouldn't change regardless of whether the rope was running free through the top piece or not. 

Optimistic wrote: The other day I saw a guy rappelling a rope solo he'd just led. The rope was anchored on the ground to a big tree, and he had clove-hitched his rope to each piece. To my eye it seemed like he was creating the opportunity for a factor 2 fall onto each piece, because the rope was tied to (not clipped through) each piece.  I've never rope soloed, so I didn't say anything, but am I missing something? Is this a standard practice? I'd always understood that you used a device on your harness to actually belay yourself, with the gear clipped in the standard running fashion as if you were doing a normal lead, and that you clove-hitched a long loop on the sharp end side of the rope to your harness in case the belay device failed... 

Some people are just ahead of their time. Watch and learn next time.

Optimistic wrote: To my eye it seemed like he was creating the opportunity for a factor 2 fall onto each piece, because the rope was tied to (not clipped through) each piece. 

We don't know exactly what he was doing.   Still, yes, creating the opportunity for a fall factor 2 is something we all should normally seek to avoid.

The weight of the rope will cause the live end (the end attached to your ground anchor) to back feed. Various strategies exist for preventing this. On sport routes I use the Matt Hunter strategy of occasional slip knots; on trad routes I'll extend and clove into occasional horizontal cam placements. 

I will often clove the first piece if the climbing is easy enough, as it helps "redirect/tension" the potential ground loop and keep slack out of the system. Other than that it is definitely not a good idea.

Very rarely on a long pitch I might do it again, strategically, below a roof if I'm worried about rope stretch putting me onto a ledge below. Obviously very careful judgement here.

The slip knot just above a clip is a decent alternative for preventing back feed if needed.

Another: after clipping the rope into a piece, some carry hair ties to girth the rope and then clip the tie in as well.  In theory, the hair tie would break free if loaded in a fall.

If you didnt ask him any questions, he could have also been out scouting and just looking for a way to the top of the cliff. If he was just stick clipping up, that may make more sense. See a stick clip hanging off his harness?

Sometimes I will clove the first few pieces as I climb, essentially building my anchor as I go. But this potentially sounds different than what you’re describing, since the climber had a tree anchor. But perhaps they didn’t fully trust it and wanted to incorporate more protection.

Optimistic wrote: The rope was anchored on the ground to a big tree, and he had clove-hitched his rope to each piece. To my eye it seemed like he was creating the opportunity for a factor 2 fall onto each piece, because the rope was tied to (not clipped through) each piece ... am I missing something? 

You are correct. Everytime you clip to a piece with a hard knot while soloing you've reset the dynamic properties of the belay rope. As stated upthread, a soloist does need to mitigate backfeeding around halfway up the pitch depending upon how the route moves but the standard practice is to use a variety of rebelays (such as a slip knot, rubber bands, autoblocks with cord, etc) in order to maintain the dynamic belay.  (There are times when you might do this with a bodyweight-only piece that will hold the rope from backfeeding with the intention of the piece blowing in a fall but this is uncommon as rebelaying with a cord tied in an autoblock knot works just as well as a knot). All in all, this soloist was using a system that, though it will work, it does introduce additional danger to the climber with no gained benefit over other methods. 

Optimistic wrote:
Is this a standard practice? 

No

Optimistic wrote:
I'd always understood that you used a device on your harness to actually belay yourself, with the gear clipped in the standard running fashion as if you were doing a normal lead, and that you clove-hitched a long loop on the sharp end side of the rope to your harness in case the belay device failed... 

If by "sharp end" you mean the rope flowing from belay device down to the anchor then no, the loop of rope is cloved on the slack end side of the rope between the belay device and the excess rope that's feeding from a rope bag or backpack, or whatever else works.

Which soloing devices tend to allow backfeeding? Are there any that don’t?

Katarina Owens wrote: Which soloing devices tend to allow backfeeding? Are there any that don’t?

I think all the good ones do. A clove hitch doesn't, but it also wont feed itself as you climb. I think backfeeding is just a necessary evil of efficient lead solo and something you learn to manage.

Ah this guy may be a friend of the goober I saw a month or so ago.

this dude and his buddy rapped into a second pitch of the wall I was climbing on, they then anchored one end of the rope to a tree then the dude climbed up the loose end using his grigri to pull slack through. The real gem came when he hit the first bolt, clipped a draw in and to the rope then tried to climb past... Realizing this was not working he then clipped the draw below the grigri… He sat and pondered this for awhile before shouting down to his buddy "whats the point of the draws?"... We packed up and left right after this. Dude was also climbing in what looked like mechanic gloves.

Maybe the guy was ahead of his time and I missed a learning opportunity.  

I have no idea about the leading of the route, if you just saw him lowering maybe you didn't see the whole story? Maybe if it was slightly over hanging  he was planning to top rope solo it. If you tied a knot too each draw on an over hang, it would be significantly easier to aid up the rope if you fell. As someone who just taught them self's to rope solo recently, it blows and there are so many ways to do it it is easy to overthink.

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

You are correct. Everytime you clip to a piece with a hard knot while soloing you've reset the dynamic properties of the belay rope. As stated upthread, a soloist does need to mitigate backfeeding around halfway up the pitch depending upon how the route moves but the standard practice is to use a variety of rebelays (such as a slip knot, rubber bands, autoblocks with cord, etc) in order to maintain the dynamic belay.  (There are times when you might do this with a bodyweight-only piece that will hold the rope from backfeeding with the intention of the piece blowing in a fall but this is uncommon as rebelaying with a cord tied in an autoblock knot). All in all, this soloist was using a system that, though it will work, it does introduce additional danger to the climber with no gained benefit over other methods. 

No

If by "sharp end" you mean the rope flowing from belay device down to the anchor then no, the loop of rope is cloved on the slack end side of the rope between the belay device and the excess rope that's feeding from a rope bag or backpack, or whatever else works. 

Yes I meant what you're describing, basically the side/end of the rope that is being moved up the cliff instead of fixed at the bottom. I guess there isn't really a "sharp end" per se in rope soloing, since the leader isn't really tied in. 

Ma Ja wrote: If you didnt ask him any questions, he could have also been out scouting and just looking for a way to the top of the cliff. If he was just stick clipping up, that may make more sense. See a stick clip hanging off his harness?

You're right I may have missed something. However I doubt that he was scouting for a way to the top of the Trapps, that secret's been out since about 1940. He was not stick clipping, he had placed trad gear. He did TR solo back up to clean the gear after the first rap down.