Climbing gym and coronavirus

tanner jones wrote: I'm an RN working on "the front lines" in the greater Seattle area.

You have to consider how contagious the virus is; that information is still up in the air and the virus is still mutating so things could change. The latest info about it's transmissibility (Ro) is listed below:

1. Preliminary studies had estimated Ro to be between 1.5 and 3.5. [5][6][7]
2. An outbreak with a reproductive number of below 1 will gradually disappear.
3. For comparison, the Ro for the common flu is 1.3 and for SARS it was 2.0.

Unless someone coughs into your face or you hook up with someone infected, you'd have to touch a surface that has been contaminated and then put your now contaminated hand into a mucus membrane (mouth, nose, eyes, etc.) to get the virus.
Climbing holds have been studied in the past and discovered to contain all kinds of bacteria and viruses: Warts (HPV), flu, MRSA, etc. all live on climbing holds.

So clearly, even without the corona virus (COVID19), it is in your best interest to ALWAYS wash your hands with warm soapy water for 20 seconds after fondling the holds at the climbing gym. This is especially important if you're about to eat because your dirty hands touch your food and then you put your now dirty food in your mouth and you get the idea.

The same concerns apply to any public space: door handles, keyboards, grocery store items, etc. are all potentially contaminated surfaces. That's why it's generally recommended to avoid touching your face without first washing your hands.

A young healthy person who supports their immune system by getting at least 8 hours of sleep a night, eating well, exercising, and reducing stress should not be overly concerned. Your concern should be directed towards elderly people and those with underlying health problems.

If you do get sick with COVID19, the flu, or just any old cold, prioritize sleep. Avoid alcohol because although it helps you fall asleep, you don't actually sleep well and this sets you back in your recovery. Increase water intake because just breathing day to day, you lose about 500 mL of evaporative fluid; when you're ill you sneeze and cough and blow your nose and typically breathe more often so you lose a lot more fluid. You'll need to increase your fluid intake to accommodate for those insensible fluid losses. Fluids also help thin out your mucus and make it easier to expectorate. Take over the counter tylenol (acetaminophen) as directed on the bottle to help with fever (although this is debatable since a mild to moderate fever actually improves your immune systems ability to fight off infection). Generic brand benadryl (Diphenhydramine 25-50mg) is the poor man's NyQuil and will help with sleep and sinus congestion.

Typical symptoms of COVID19 include muscle pain, fever, shortness of breath, and a cough. None of these symptoms warrant a trip to the hospital unless you feel short of breath at rest. If you do go to the hospital, call ahead and tell them you're coming, they might direct you to a special area of the hospital for processing. Wear a basic surgical mask (it prevents exhaled spread of large virus particles 25-fold; it doesn't help un-infected people from inhaling the virus) and wash your hands on arrival (to reduce surface transmission).

The bottom line if you have symptoms: Don't go to the hospital unless you think you're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital. If you are elderly or have other serious health problems, that's a different story. But the hospital can't do much for mild cases other than give you fluids and potentially some oxygen.

So you will still be the little spoon! See ya next weekend

Andrei Steclaru wrote:Personally, I think most of this is overhyped by the media. Same thing happened with the swine flu, then the avian flu, SARS and so on.

Incredibly uninformed opinion.

SARS:
Prognosis 9.6% chance of death (all countries)
Frequency 8,098 cases
Deaths 774

Swine flu:
It is estimated that in the 2009 flu pandemic 11–21% of the then global population (of about 6.8 billion), or around 700 million to 1.4 billion people, contracted the illness — more in absolute terms than the Spanish flu pandemic. However, with about 150,000–575,000 fatalities, it had a much lower case fatality rate. In August 2010, the World Health Organization declared the swine flu pandemic officially over.[4][5]
Subsequent cases of swine flu were reported in India in 2015, with over 31,156 positive test cases and 1,841 deaths up to March 2015.[6]

 The avian flu had all the indications of being just as virulent and transmissible and becoming a likely pandemic.

In 2 months, over 90000 people have contracted Covid-19. This is not overhyping by the media.

Marc801 C wrote: Incredibly uninformed opinion.

SARS:
Prognosis 9.6% chance of death (all countries)
Frequency 8,098 cases
Deaths 774

Swine flu:
It is estimated that in the 2009 flu pandemic 11–21% of the then global population (of about 6.8 billion), or around 700 million to 1.4 billion people, contracted the illness — more in absolute terms than the Spanish flu pandemic. However, with about 150,000–575,000 fatalities, it had a much lower case fatality rate. In August 2010, the World Health Organization declared the swine flu pandemic officially over.[4][5]
Subsequent cases of swine flu were reported in India in 2015, with over 31,156 positive test cases and 1,841 deaths up to March 2015.[6]

 The avian flu had all the indications of being just as virulent and transmissible and becoming a likely pandemic.

In 2 months, over 90000 people have contracted Covid-19. This is not overhyping by the media.

Great copy-paste job there. What's your point though? Even if the 575k figure for deaths is accurate (which it probably isn't, as no one seems to agree on an actual number, but most studies put at around 300k), it's still nothing when you consider how large the world's population is. The media made it look like the world was ending though, which is exactly the same thing that's happening now.

Andrei Steclaru wrote:

Great copy-paste job there. What's your point though? Even if the 575k figure for deaths is accurate (which it probably isn't, as no one seems to agree on an actual number, but most studies put at around 300k), it's still nothing when you consider how large the world's population is. The media made it look like the world was ending though, which is exactly the same thing that's happening now.

This is like arguing with an anti-vaxxer or flat-earther.

It really doesn't matter how seriously you take the virus. You're less likely to get it if you take precautions. Arguing and comparing it to other flu is meaningless. Personally, I'm not too worried about it. Until I get it!

Route setting in the bomb shelter, FTW.

The biggest threat is preppers buying up all the toilet paper in town...

Bailey Layzer wrote:
Also if you want to be an edgy reductionist please just say "cold" because that's what we call most coronaviruses. 

You sound like either virologist or medical professional - you should edit wikipedia article on "Common Cold" to reflect the depths of your knowledge - the article seems to imply that only 15% of colds are caused by coronaviruses.

​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold​​​

Viruses

Coronaviruses are a group of viruses known for causing the common cold. They have a halo or crown-like (corona) appearance when viewed under an electron microscope.The common cold is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. The most commonly implicated virus is a rhinovirus (30–80%), a type of picornavirus with 99 known serotypes.[29][30] Other commonly implicated viruses include human coronavirus (≈ 15%),[31][32] influenza viruses (10–15%),[33] adenoviruses (5%),[33] human respiratory syncytial virus (orthopneumovirus), enteroviruses other than rhinoviruses, human parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus.[34] Frequently more than one virus is present.[35] In total over 200 viral types are associated with colds.[3]

Garry R wrote: worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Anyone else notice how much higher the mortality rate is in the US?

In most developed countries, people will not hesitate and go to the hospital and get tested, essentially for free.  

In the US, a trip to the ER will cost you ~$500 to $5000 even with insurance (read the small print), which makes most people think twice...

This fact alone likely leads to severe under-reporting of cases in the US, except of course the most serious ones, including deaths.  This then leads to a higher % of death, due to simple arithmetic.

But of course, those with symptoms may also tend to wait longer to seek medical care in the US (cost) than the rest of the world (mostly free), again leading to higher numbers due to lack of care. 

tanner jones wrote: The bottom line if you have symptoms: Don't go to the hospital unless you think you're sick enough to be admitted to the hospital. If you are elderly or have other serious health problems, that's a different story. But the hospital can't do much for mild cases other than give you fluids and potentially some oxygen.

Tanner, that was quite jargon download. Thanks for the work you’re doing, I’m sure you’re a little freaked—I know we are in my hospital.

For anyone else who tried to decipher Tanner’s post, I think this last paragraph is the most important. 

Please do not go to the emergency room if you are worried about Coronavirus unless you are really, really sick—as in, you can’t breathe. We only have so many isolation rooms, and the ER is full of cancer patients, CHF patients, COPD patients, and other vulnerable people.
I work at a 600+ bed level 1 trauma center and we are having trouble dealing with the influx of worried well.  Call your primary care doctor for phone triage. Our hospital leadership is working hard to coordinate with local PCPs on how to keep people safe at home and limiting hospital visits to those who need it. 

Could all you Americans please vote for someone that will try to fix the shit show you call a healthcare system. With a global virus like this you're putting us all more at risk by having all the money for travel, but being unable to afford decent medical assistance.

Had the unfortunate experience of engaging with the us healthcare system last year. I vastly prefer both the public and private sector in the third world country where I live... I am not sure you know just how bad of a deal you actually have...

Raz Bob wrote: Could all you Americans please vote for someone that will try to fix the shit show you call a healthcare system. With a global virus like this you're putting us all more at risk by having all the money for travel, but being unable to afford decent medical assistance.

Had the unfortunate experience of engaging with the us healthcare system last year. I vastly prefer both the public and private sector in the third world country where I live... I am not sure you know just how bad of a deal you actually have...

Stay out of our domestic affairs, foreigner! You're just jealous of us.

By the way, what country are you from? South Africa?

Not from South Africa, but I live here. My partner is American, so I dip in every now and again. Always with pleasure btw, but also always amazed at how much you are willing to accept in exchange for free 1day delivery or whatever it is you get.

I'm from a way more socialist country originally, but I just got tired of all that accessible free healthcare and education...

Raz Bob wrote: Could all you Americans please vote for someone that will try to fix the shit show you call a healthcare system. With a global virus like this you're putting us all more at risk by having all the money for travel, but being unable to afford decent medical assistance.

Had the unfortunate experience of engaging with the us healthcare system last year. I vastly prefer both the public and private sector in the third world country where I live... I am not sure you know just how bad of a deal you actually have...

Laughable.

A. this global virus came from China. However flawed the healthcare here is, I'd take it over anything in China's corrupt system.

B. I had free healthcare in a third world country and holy shit. I wish I still had the picture of the stitches they used, it looked like 200 lb test fishing line (i.e. very thick). The doctor went to start stitching up the wound and he kept trying to use the needle and it wouldn't puncture the skin. "Wow you have very tough skin". I asked him to try a new needle and when he pulled a new one out of the package it went through like butter, so he was using a very old needle..... gross.... needless to say i pulled the stitches out myself and didn't go back to that hospital....

Dave K wrote:

Scar pics or it didn't happen.

Happened 10 years ago. I was tightening a new blade on a wood planer and the wrench slipped off and I karate chopped the blade. Flayed that baby open good, all the way to the pinky bone. Good times.

The point is that the comparison is absurd. The US is the richest country in the world and your healthcare system is third rate. Not quite Niger, but a far cry from comparable economies. Actual high quality surgery in South Africa costs less than two x-rays and five minutes w a doctor in the US. Have had both.

The trouble is, we all live in America, who you elect directly effects our lives whether we go to the US or not. Which I do and love to do. And yes, you have almost all the best things. Just not healthcare (and sport climbing) ;-)

Raz Bob wrote: The point is that the comparison is absurd. The US is the richest country in the world and your healthcare system is third rate. Not quite Niger, but a far cry from comparable economies. Actual high quality surgery in South Africa costs less than two x-rays and five minutes w a doctor in the US. Have had both.

The trouble is, we all live in America, who you elect directly effects our lives whether we go to the US or not. Which I do and love to do. And yes, you have almost all the best things. Just not healthcare (and sport climbing) ;-)

HAHAHA, yes third rate if you don't have money. Lots of the best doctors in the world are in America and our college education system is full of doctors who come here to get educated and then go back to their respective countries. So ya third rate lol. 

I'd agree with ya on the sport climbing and climbers!! lol

Bruce Aylward, World Health Organization Joint Mission to China:

"China got patients in treatment early and have highly sophisticated health care treatment procedures. They are really good at keeping people alive with this disease. They have a survival rate (with a mortality rate of just under 1% outside of Hubei province) for this disease I would not extrapolate to the rest of the world. What you’ve seen in Italy and Iran is that a lot of people are dying.
Panic and hysteria are not appropriate. This is a disease that is in the cases and their close contacts. It’s not a hidden enemy lurking behind bushes. Get organized, get educated, and get working."

Source: Vox Interview

Chris Cragsocks wrote: Bruce Aylward, World Health Organization Joint Mission to China:

"China got patients in treatment early and have highly sophisticated health care treatment procedures. They are really good at keeping people alive with this disease. They have a survival rate (with a mortality rate of just under 1% outside of Hubei province) for this disease I would not extrapolate to the rest of the world. What you’ve seen in Italy and Iran is that a lot of people are dying.
Panic and hysteria are not appropriate. This is a disease that is in the cases and their close contacts. It’s not a hidden enemy lurking behind bushes. Get organized, get educated, and get working."

Source: Vox Interview

Because i'd believe any numbers the Chinese gov. puts out? Just like they have been inflating their GDP growth over the last ten years and a slew of other examples? 

Now it's just opinions about politics.  Time to unsubscribe.