Rock Art Disrespected at Josh!

Jack Sparrow wrote:

Aw man I’ve been savin that one to, can’t even go back and edit it. Frickn gumbies

Correct Response:  "#OkGumby"

So nobody knows of a reason to protect rock art? 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

You’ve been given like half a dozen, but as usual, you continue to move the goal posts.

There was one, that the park protected things that were done prior to 1936 but that is not a reason to protect the art, it's a justification. 

Let's put it another way, why should we care about rock art?

I am not sure what your exact problem might be, but lots of land with archaeological material is freely used by people (including me!). I have climbed at Joshua Tree and had a great time without disturbing archaeological material, which is generally secure unless the ground is disturbed.  Archies dig don't they, and isn't that disturbance?  Yes, absolutely!  That is why we need a good, justifiable reason to excavate and do the proper analysis and write up.

It all comes down to careful, thoughtful planning.  Usually you can modifya project a bit and avoid disturbance; sometimes you must go ahead and dig the site, thus preserving the information contained thereiin.  One reason you just don't go out and dig blindly is that excavation is destruction,.  You recover information and objects as best you can with current techniques and knowledge, but painfully aware that better techniques will be used in the future; whenever possible, leave it in the ground for future work.

Incidentally, only a very small amount of acreage is closed to public use and entry because it contains archaeology.   Far more land is closed, usually just seasonally, because of natural resources.  Think rare and endangered species like snowy plovers.  Parts of beaches are now closed because it is now their breeding season.  Folks can still surf and enjoy the sand, just not all of it.

Archies work to understand the past and contribute information to all.  "Those who do not study the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them."

Tradiban wrote:

Let's put it another way, why should we care about rock art?

You'd think a troll would know how to use Google....

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/rockartnetwork/introduction.php

http://archeology.uark.edu/rockart/index.html?pageName=What%20is%20Rock%20Art%20and%20What%20Can%20it%20Tell%20Us%20About%20the%20Past?

https://www.archaeologysouthwest.org/2019/11/15/why-should-we-care-about-the-past/

This same discussion but from people who aren't trolls: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_does_the_study_of_rock_art_and_archaeology_make_a_difference

Marc801 C wrote: You'd think a troll would know how to use Google....

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/rockartnetwork/introduction.php

http://archeology.uark.edu/rockart/index.html?pageName=What%20is%20Rock%20Art%20and%20What%20Can%20it%20Tell%20Us%20About%20the%20Past?

https://www.archaeologysouthwest.org/2019/11/15/why-should-we-care-about-the-past/

This same discussion but from people who aren't trolls: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_does_the_study_of_rock_art_and_archaeology_make_a_difference

Of course he knows how, but is counting on others' laziness to not bother to search, in order to afford himself his favorite amusement. 

Why the hell should we care about people wearing onsies? 

BigCountry wrote: Why the hell should we care about people wearing onsies? 

Yes,  I’ve often thought a onesie would have been great. 

Tradiban wrote:Why does it matter what the ancient diet was?

Because “paleo”, dumbass.

Marc801 C wrote: You'd think a troll would know how to use Google....

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/rockartnetwork/introduction.php

http://archeology.uark.edu/rockart/index.html?pageName=What%20is%20Rock%20Art%20and%20What%20Can%20it%20Tell%20Us%20About%20the%20Past?

https://www.archaeologysouthwest.org/2019/11/15/why-should-we-care-about-the-past/

This same discussion but from people who aren't trolls: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_does_the_study_of_rock_art_and_archaeology_make_a_difference

"So we can cultivate a better future". Ya right.

What purpose do these cave doodles serve to anyone?

A relevant podcast: ​https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/episodes/things​​​

Tradiban wrote: "So we can cultivate a better future". Ya right.

What purpose do these cave doodles serve to anyone?

A relevant podcast: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/episodes/things

Along with other tangible objects from the past that have survived, they give insight into past knowledge and capabilities.  There is rock art in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, at Fajada Butte (an interesting scramble, incidentally,,with one short 5.5 pitch) where elements align on the winter solstice, indicating fairly sophisticated astronomical knowledge on the part of the inhabitants there.  This relationship was not recognizeed for many years; indeed, I have scrambled past the panel myself when on a relaxing scramble after dinner to watch the sunset.

Some panels are still significant to surviving Native Amerian groups; they typically don't discuss their feelings at length.

Part of the intrigue of studying this stuff is that some motifs probably are aimless doodles.  Your challenge is to figure out the difference and make a convincing case and thereby increase knowledge and understanding, which just might cultivate a better future. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

You don't think that some of the earliest examples of human art is worth preserving? How can that be a serious question?

No, I don't. Give me some reasons why we should preserve them. Or do you just follow the herd?

...and people wonder why we have access issues.

Time for Some Multiple Choice Jeopardy!!! Category - ”People”

This person can’t understand why something is wrong, demands people explain it to them, still can’t understand perfectly logical and rational explanations explained with adult words, or just chooses to ignore the explanation and throw a hissy fit anyway. Who is this? 

A. Who is Tradiban?
B. Who is a Toddler?

Congratulations if you picked A or B you are correct and get a point either way.

Pete.N wrote: ...and people wonder why we have access issues.

This.

 ... it is a little surprising REI has let this thread persist.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Because art is a wonderful part of human existence.

So you would be in favor of protecting the modern rock art just added to the park?

It might have been said. I just skipped to end. Some of your trolls are funny, this one is weak. But still people engage. Does anyone have a job? Or something to climb?

What I want to know is, does nomad ventures sell spray paint?

JohnReg wrote: It might have been said. I just skipped to end. Some of your trolls are funny, this one is weak. But still people engage. Does anyone have a job? Or something to climb?

We all have to poop sometime. I don’t know about everybody else but I do all of my MP reading and posting while sitting on the pooper, seems fitting, and keeps me from wasting more useful time on trolls. 

Tradiban wrote:

No, I don't. Give me some reasons why we should preserve them. Or do you just follow the herd?

You've framed the question incorrectly to make your argument seem logical. It isn't about art quality or even if either images are in fact 'art'. It's the conditions they were created under. Older images were created when art didn't exist in conditions when humans could not be assured of food/water/survival. This makes the older images more interesting to most humans (you excluded) than those more recent images and the recent ones so much more trivial. Also as a human community in response to the explosion in the human population in recent centuries we have agreed as a group to keep certain places as pristine as possible and free of human evidence. There are plenty of walls and bridges to spray paint.

Damn he got me. :)