Stuck cam, what is the etiquette?

dude can you read. I was the follower on prayer stick. leader got my cam free that I was prepared to leave.  not tough as I don't give a hoot about the money. still usually the followers fault. 

Cpn Dunsel wrote:
The historical code has always been:

All gear loss is on the leader.  It is 100% their risk when they are climbing with other people.  If a second buries a piece it is on the leader.  Chances are the second buries the gear because it was hard to clean or at a weird stance and this is the result of the person that placed the gear.

Who ever placed the gear is responsible for it being stuck, regardless of what happens next.

Asking a second to pony up or share cost is bullshit.  When a second offers to pony up tell them "Thanks but no.  It's on me since I am the leader.""

STICK TO THE CODE

I'm total opposite. I see gear as disposable that will get stuck, dropped, or tweaked to uselessness. Whatever. When my rack is in use, I eat the loss. My partners eat it when it's their rack. 

If someone asks me to pay, I will. 80 bucks is a cheap remedy to get rid of headaches forever...

Can't believe we're at 3 pages and no one has yet asked, Where is it? There have to be 100 or 1000 readers here who want to go booty it.

Agree with Salamanizer. It's just a thing. However you sort it out doesn't matter. Just tell us where we can go get this booty.

What goes in can come out.  Work it when the sun goes off that area and it gets colder. Rock contracts significantly.

Honorable men make up the damage done.  Some men may be too poor, get a temp gig.

Honorable men who were wronged, forgive and forget. It's a chance to buy new gear!

Cpn Dunsel wrote:

That is not the opposite. That is the exact same.  Yikes.  You even pulled my post and quoted it.  THAT IS THE CODE

I also pay up to the cheap pricks that measure their life through an economic lens.  Then I never climb with them again and often bad mouth them and ask them if they have Scottish ancestry. 

No, my inference was all gear lost is on the shoulder's of the rack owner, not leader.

Other than that, yes, it does appear we are on the same page. Only half opposite...

Spit on it and rip it out.

I forgive, but never forget...

(Edit after reading a very thoughtful private message) I guess I ain't a forgiver, I'm more of the forgetter...  does make much more sense!!! So easy to forget the worthless, money grubbing climbers...

Nick Goldsmith wrote: dude can you read. I was the follower on prayer stick. leader got my cam free that I was prepared to leave.  not tough as I don't give a hoot about the money. still usually the followers fault. 

 "INMOP its almost always the followers fault when the gear gets stuck."

 did I read this incorrectly or did you just run out of fiber supplements yesterday?

James W wrote: With all this debate, has anyone thought about telling their partner if gear gets stuck and who's paying what before hand? 

do every time before starting a multipitch...

Kai Parker wrote:

do every time before starting a multipitch...

It’s important to discuss protection with your partner before embarking on risky activity. 

I hope anyone who lays down a strict "the follower pays for stuck gear" policy gets benighted while their follower unknowingly labors to free some welded in cam that's been stuck there for weeks.

I once watched a guy ahead of me on Tahquitz get all freaked out struggling  with a stuck cam he thought his leader had placed. When I got a look at it the thing had clearly been there for ages. Corrosion all over it. But the leader HAD clipped it.

Señor Arroz wrote: I hope anyone who lays down a strict "the follow pays for stuck gear" policy gets benighted while their follower unknowingly labors to free some welded in cam that's been stuck there for weeks.

I once watched a guy ahead of me on Tahquitz get all freaked out struggling  with a stuck cam he thought his leader had placed. When it got a look at it the thing had clearly been there for ages. Corrosion all over it. But the leader HAD clipped it. 

I tell the noobs "If it doesn't come out right away just leave it and I will rap down and grab it". Because the noobs will just make it worse. 

True story.

Stick To The Code ! 

 It is part of the game ~ shit gets used. If it was a clear bone-head move? then the Bone-head should replace with a similar piece from their own rack .
In the Mentor/Mentee relationship the disposition of wrecked or "lost"gear should be clearly worked out ahead of time.

Tim Stich · wrote ·
Hey, just another question about etiquette. When you are setting a table and will be serving lobster tails, where does the lobster fork go?

Does it go on the outside of the soup spoon or what?

Also, when you drink tea do you put your pinky out or leave it curled in?

Cpn Dunsel didn't answer the Lobster service question.
 In general, the proper location for the flatware placement depends on the formality of the dining event.   If you are serving the whole boiled Lobster, with Bib, shell crackers, pick & Sea-food forks as a set, the group is set across the top of the 'Charger" with a napkin fanned at the bottom. It is understood to be a messy less formal service.

When the menu item is Newbuhg or Thermadore,  pre-split claws & tails or lump-meat with pilaf the traditional formal setting should be followed. The seafood fork is laid on the right side of the soup spoon. It is the only fork placed on the right side of the place setting. The fork tines are placed in the bowl of the soup spoon with the handle at a 45-degree angle. (It may also be laid next to the soup spoon in a parallel position.)Paul Smiths '83, Ex.Chef/Hotel Res. Mng. Double major. 

&

If you or yer junkie buddy throws my bowl into the talus, whether it's a 'Mill', a 'Snodgrass' or homemade wood/Antler~ I'ma-gonna-box-yer-ears.(if its the'Snod', I'll be going up-side yer head with the #6 Tri-cam)

I've never worked shit out ahead of time and never lost anything besides a #12 stopper that was replaced in a gracious manor and unexpected.

I'd actually be weary of climbing with someone who insisted I help replace his/her gear. As soon as that speech started I'd be thinking bouldering today is my best option.

Melesa Hamer wrote:

That's why we ALWAYS talk about if condoms are enough protection.  And whose fault is it if the condom goes missing.  

I'll be damned if I can remember her name(It may come to me?) but I gnew a woman who carried her own around in her chalk-bag.                                                                     She would on occasion "forget" her bag, at the belay,  just to be sure that the object of her intentions could not miss her message.

If I make a lot more money than my partner, I will eat the cost. Otherwise we just split or trade a cam. Or buy dinner or gas. It’s $35 that is up in the air. Most relationships are worth more. If not, get the cam replaced but know that you might not climb with him/her again.

My opinion about that and similarly grey areas in life: just try to work it out as reasonable people. Reasonable people put together when only the 2 persons are involved should have some sort of reasonable compromise within reach.

If you can't work it out as reasonable people, then maybe you're just not meant to get along, or at least not within the context in which the disagreement occurred.  It's not about any sort of "climbing code" about stuck gear or whatever. That's just default settlement for people who don't want/can't arrive at a reasonable compromise given the situation and need outside help to settle things for them.

The upside to that approach is that it'll tell you much about yourself as a person and the ones you interract with than some hard code, one size fits all approach imo.

Adrian Juncosawrote: Can't believe we're at 3 pages and no one has yet asked, Where is it? There have to be 100 or 1000 readers here who want to go booty it.

Agree with Salamanizer. It's just a thing. However you sort it out doesn't matter. Just tell us where we can go get this booty.

This made me laugh so hard =)