Approach ski beta for a mountaineer

christoph benells wrote: Unless you're on a groomed trail you are not going to be faster than a skimo race setup with XC skis.. Waxed mohair skins glide nearly as well as fishscale bases in ungroomed snow. 

My condolences to you who have never experienced the joy of BC XC skiing. Gaining many meters of glide for each step, covering vast grounds almost without effort.

If all of the skiing you do is uphill then a skimo setup is fine, but I dont think you understand the meaning of the word 'glide'.. 

Artem Vasilyev wrote: What should I expect to spend on a quality setup that will last me a long time? I am currently budgeting to drop up to 2.5k next winter with everything said and done. This is not counting avvie gear and avvie classes.

dynafit speed turn - $221

last season's skis - $349 or $515 or $299

a light boot that is comfy (if you're going to spend a bunch of money spend it here, this is the most important bit) - $319

or just follow mp and tgr forums to wait for a nice setup to get sold for cheap

Kyle Tarry wrote:

For a guy who keeps insulting everyone else's reading comprehension, you seem to be having trouble understanding that we're talking about your specific boat anchor Silvretta setup, not a good modern XC setup.

Funny.....the pic I posted with broken binding and what I ski on the flats is a Voile VPII telemark binding.   

My point exactly.  That you’re arguing a non argument 

Artem Vasilyev wrote:.

Any common pitfalls/mistakes made by first time purchasers and BC skiiers that I should know about?

Try before you buy. Know what you want first.

Kyle Tarry wrote: Literally nobody said that....

And that’s straight outta MY mouth.  

But YOU jumped back in this thread when I said I can travel faster on the flats with my skinnier skis and that tele rig and you disagreed.  Go back and read.  

So I ask again, what’s your point.  You seem to be contradicting yourself.  

Or quit posting and just strap em on and let’s see who’s right.   Loser posts as their avatar a pic of them wearing just bra and panties. 

Mark Pilate wrote: Christian - as a Minnesotan (half Norwegian/half Swedish) who travels,  I get it.  We use different skis for different kinds of skiing.   But here we are dealing with a few American western Neanderthals who apparently only own one pair of skis...and thus it’s the best for EVERYTHING.   No matter where you’re skiing or what your intentions are.  

when you pass them on the trail, it’s best to not make eye contact and just throw em a clif bar as all the unnecessary skinning work has made them ravenous and jumpy.  But they are in fact harmless, as they could never catch you anyway.

Two things here: 

. Nobody's won the CO Grand Traverse on XC gear in years, and all the speed records are on modern AT gear. Considering it's the epitome of a rolling terrain race where glide AND the ability to quickly bang out mellow ups and down is critical (40 miles with 7k of vert) and it attracts the fastest people in the US (with a fair number of Euro crushers), I'd say it's a pretty solid data point to support the fact that you've actually never seen, let alone passed anyone who is actually moving at a good clip on fast and light AT setup. You may think you're fast but I guarantee anyone even mid-field in that race would have no issues catching your ass and stealing your cliff bar. Which probably explains why you're slow in the first place, those things are sawdust mixed with glue.

. If you were born in the US, you're an American, not a 50/50 Scandinavian. If you were actually born in Scandinavia, I'm sorry about the assumption, and I'm even more sorry about how things turned out for you.

Now carry on doing exactly what you're accusing everyone in this thread of doing: dogmatically stating that your way is better while being completely oblivious to the limitations of the system you're preaching.

Edit: wouldn't be too challenging to find a fast AT lady to school you and make you wear those bras and panties you seem to think are so horrifyingly shameful. Man do you sound like a tool!

Artem Vasilyev wrote: Any common pitfalls/mistakes made by first time purchasers and BC skiiers that I should know about?

Not learning how to ski.

Boissal-
Three things here-
1.  No argument on the traverse.  I’d use a light race AT set up myself.  
2.  I know.  I don’t eat clif bars.  I hate em.  It was a literary device
3.  I said Minnesotan (of Scandinavian descent)
4.  My only advocation is for the best set up for the purpose and terrain.  I am an advocate for light skimo rigs (even though mine is beefier due to more downhill use for ski patrol and my MN home).   You seem to be erroneously interpreting that I am tied to a “way”.
I will stand by my experience that accessing ice climbs via flat terrain is better, faster, and much more cheaply accomplished on non-AT rigs. 

and yes, that’s 4 things

Edit:  re: panties....attempt at levity.  apparently yours are in a bunch
Such conviction, But I didn’t see you take the bet.  

Mark Pilate wrote: 
But you guys have to take responsibility for... overall skiing ignorance... 
 

I've skied since I could walk, Grandfather was a ski instructor and bartender at my local hill where I grew up in CA (20 mins up the road). I have worked in the ski industry for the past 14 years, managing ski retail, rental and repair shops. Where I currently work we have 2 stores I manage with dozens of brands, literally thousands of rental items (including setups such as rossi bc 125's w/ voile swithcbacks, and ultralight skimo gear), and world class ski tuning equipment. Once, I snowboarded from the summit of Denali. I ski tens of thousands of vertical every week, mostly human powered.

But yeah- I have overall skiing ignorance

You are a ski patroller in Minnesota??   

christoph benells wrote:
I've skied since I could walk.....

Great.   Then what’s the argument ?

You have to explain the argument, cuz by now I’m legitimately confused

There is no argument. There is no right or wrong, only personal preference. You are trying to push cross country skis for some reason, when there are very limited circumstances where they are even applicable for climbing purposes. Even fewer uses for them on mountaineering routes.

And challenging kyle to a race? Ain't nobody got time for that. What an asinine premise, Kyle traveling from  Oregon to race some dude in Minnesota after an internet argument.

Where do you get I’m pushing XC?   Have you read my posts here?   I’m one of the original posters here who recommended to the OP to go AT.  

I came back to ask about field repairing pin bindings.  

I happened to mention in response to forthright  that here in MN on the flats, a skinny ski and tele binding is faster than AT while in the same post, saying that for the Mountains, AT is the way to go.

Kyle jumped my shit.   And was flat out wrong (no pun intended)
Admittedly,  I childishly challenged Kyle to a race.   But since he’s from Oregon and my Dad lives in Oregon, I said I’d come to him.  

Hell, I’d come to you too...I travel west a lot. gotta get out of MN so I can get to the mountains and use AT and get off the fuckin XC. 

Edit:  while somewhat childish, and reactionary, the positive spin counterpoint is that because this is an Internet forum, and so many people spout shit they know nothing about and can’t back up.  I’m simply willing to either back up my point or admit I was totally wrong.  I wasn’t challenging him to a fight. 

Mark Pilate wrote: Boissal-
Three things here-
1.  No argument on the traverse.  I’d use a light race AT set up myself.  
2.  I know.  I don’t eat clif bars.  I hate em.  It was a literary device
3.  I said Minnesotan (of Scandinavian descent)
4.  My only advocation is for the best set up for the purpose and terrain.  I am an advocate for light skimo rigs (even though mine is beefier due to more downhill use for ski patrol and my MN home).   You seem to be erroneously interpreting that I am tied to a “way”.
I will stand by my experience that accessing ice climbs via flat terrain is better, faster, and much more cheaply accomplished on non-AT rigs. 

and yes, that’s 4 things

Edit:  re: panties....attempt at levity.  apparently yours are in a bunch
Such conviction, But I didn’t see you take the bet.  

Fair points all around. 

1. XC skis are mucho better to cross lakes. I've slogged across GTNP lake approaches on AT gear and hated every second of it. Especially since I've raced my fair share of XC and there's no better way to move across true flats.

2. You're a bit loose with what you call literary but sure. 

3. Nitpicking but it's a major pet peeve of mine. If you were born here you're an American regardless of where grandpa sailed from. You could be a direct descendant of Ullr and it wouldn't make your point any more salient, why are you bringing it up?

4. You've considerably toned down your rhetoric in this thread as people have pointed out that you're overflowing with shit. Now you've settled on a perfectly reasonable middle-ground I have no need to argue with. That being said, I find it quite rich that you're all about the best setup for purpose and terrain but you're patrolling in AT gear. A boot with a walk-mode is great for that but beating the shit out of pin bindings day in day out working at a resort is a perfect example of using gear outside of its scope.  

When your failed attempt at levity is tainted with misogyny it's worth calling you out on it. And regarding your bet, can you really picture someone traveling to MN to race you on a frozen lake just to win a MP argument? I can sit here watching you tie yourself into knots over it and go ski a foot of pow tomorrow morning or drive a few miles to climb ice instead of slogging across flatlandia.

I'll pass on the bet, let's just say you won eh?

Edit: looks like you're willing to travel. Damn... You're serious about this measuring contest uh? 

Re: #4

Hahaha exactly

Well this escalated quickly. Unfollowing.

Its kind of basic really. If you are in the east and your primary objective is climbing you want the lightest fishscales that have metal edges and you need a good binding to  ski them with climbing boots. that's your climbing set up. You will also have sets of XC skiis for Nordic days and telle or AT gear for powder days.  If you are in the west you use whatever you western dudes use.  I would think that would also depend on the objective.  anyone who can get by with a single set of skiis for everything is pretty far ahead of the curve. Everyonme I know has a shit ton of different skiis and boots, bindings etc. 

Ditching the skins and going to fish scales for climbing set up was light years improvement for me. 

christoph benells wrote: Re: #4

Hahaha exactly

Well,  not exactly....

@Boissal and Christoph

You guys are simply off base here.  Re-read the thread.  I recommended AT to the OP.    Then I asked about field repairability, for my own info to repair my own pin bindings.  (But I apparently made the Gumby mistake of not buying the lightest most race worthy skimo stuff - that’s on me)

Kyle misunderstood my question and points and then basically said I was full of it for saying skinnier skis and a more XC setup is faster on the flats where I live.  Then you guys jumped in.  I was merely defending my own use of tele/xc gear with climbing boots to get to Non mountainous ice climbs, and against the false assumptions being presented.  

As far as the Minnesotan commment, I was addressing Christian who is from Sweden (at least I think).  MN has tons of sister cities in Sweden.  I was “bonding”. sorry to offend you.

As far as moderating my rhetoric, I simply de-escalated the insults as it was getting stupid.  As far as my ski related statements I Haven’t changed a thing.  Quote anywhere in this thread where I recommend Nordic for anything but flat to rolling terrain.   Quote where I backtracked.  The overflowing shit is on the other foot.  I stand by everything I posted.  One of my peeves here is you guys inventing arguments that never were.   It sure seems it’s you guys who changed position and now “of course Nordic is faster on flat terrain” but you’re keeping up the insults.

Misogyny?? Seriously.  We’re on the same side here in general.  but you got me there.  

Let’s call it a draw.  You concede on the skiing and I’ll concede on “wokeness”

Oh, and for what is worth, I ski AT on patrol because it’s volunteer a few nights a week, it’s colocated with a Nordic ski area, it gives me a workout and staves boredom to avoid the lifts, and if I’m gonna ski anything sketchy ever out west, I want to be dialed in and not re-learning the subtleties of a new rig.  

And as far as the “measuring contest” ?
Well, MY grandpa owned the bar where Christoph’s grandpa bartended!

Mark Pilate wrote:

Well,  not exactly....

@Boissal and Christoph

You guys are simply off base here.  Re-read the thread.  I recommended AT to the OP.    Then I asked about field repairability, for my own info to repair my own pin bindings.  (But I apparently made the Gumby mistake of not buying the lightest most race worthy skimo stuff - that’s on me)

Kyle misunderstood my question and points and then basically said I was full of it for saying skinnier skis and a more XC setup is faster on the flats where I live.  Then you guys jumped in.  I was merely defending my own use of tele/xc gear with climbing boots to get to Non mountainous ice climbs, and against the false assumptions being presented.  

As far as the Minnesotan commment, I was addressing Christian who is from Sweden (at least I think).  MN has tons of sister cities in Sweden.  I was “bonding”. sorry to offend you.

As far as moderating my rhetoric, I simply de-escalated the insults as it was getting stupid.  As far as my ski related statements I Haven’t changed a thing.  Quote anywhere in this thread where I recommend Nordic for anything but flat to rolling terrain.   Quote where I backtracked.  The overflowing shit is on the other foot.  I stand by everything I posted.  One of my peeves here is you guys inventing arguments that never were.   It sure seems it’s you guys who changed position and now “of course Nordic is faster on flat terrain” but you’re keeping up the insults.

Misogyny?? Seriously.  We’re on the same side here in general.  but you got me there.  

Let’s call it a draw.  You concede on the skiing and I’ll concede on “wokeness”

Oh, and for what is worth, I ski AT on patrol because it’s volunteer a few nights a week, it’s colocated with a Nordic ski area, it gives me a workout and staves boredom to avoid the lifts, and if I’m gonna ski anything sketchy ever out west, I want to be dialed in and not re-learning the subtleties of a new rig.  

And as far as the “measuring contest” ?
Well, MY grandpa owned the bar where Christoph’s grandpa bartended!

No, you win with the most amount of typing!

M Mobes wrote:

No, you win with the most amount of typing!

Touché.  Keyboard stepped away from.