Cheap Approach Ski Setup Options

Mark Pilate wrote: Lucas hit the nail on the head!   Yes Kyle, my AT boots were made in 2016.  I use them when I head west.  But the OP is a homeboy in my own backyard.   My “graph” above is definitive for upper Midwest (MN, U.P. , or Canada).  

We’re splitting hairs here, but maybe what’s needed for final word  is a comp at several locations.  Bring your rig and put your money where your mouth is!

and don’t forget the key word in the title of this thread.....”cheap...”.      Nothing about modern skimo gear is cheap. 

Thanks for bringing us back around homeboy. Things were gettin in the weeds (mountains). Cheap (ish) and for the Midwest (read: flat) is what I am looking for. Lots of good info in here and lots to ponder. 

I dont ski and don't wanna spend big bucks on skimo/AT gear.

I've logged several miles on these old things. They were fine for sliding along on the flats, and I could even manage a bit of snowplow (or wedge or pizza slice or WTF they teach it as these days) for braking and turning. The "wings are angle-adjustable, and - although they're hard to see in the pic - there are little nubs on the side plates that help hold your boot toes in place. If that's not adequate, it's common to run a strap across the top of your toes to keep the boots in place.  Put these on any shortish, widish, scale-bottomed XC ski and you'll be all set. Only downside I noticed - the nubs chafe on the edges of the boot sole; just cosmetic damage IME.

And yes, I'd be happy to sell them to you; PM me.

 

Interesting. Is that just an old school tele binding?

Taylor Krosbakken wrote: Interesting. Is that just an old school tele binding?

It pre-dates the popularity of tele skiing. This type of binding was not unusual before the standardization of 3 pin bindings (of course even THOSE are by-gone now) for XC skiing. And yes, you could manage a telemark turn in them, just as you could in 3 pins, though few people bothered to learn that 50 years ago.  With cable hold-downs on the sides of the skis (not mounted in the above case) and some means of limiting cable tension at the front throw, it was the way people alpine skied before separate heel and toe piece bindings were invented. Lateral release at the toe?  Dream on. Coincidentally (or not), my bindings are Tyrolia brand, to this day a major player in the alpine market.

That old binding is a Kandahar binding aka bear trap

Mark Pilate wrote: Nothing about modern skimo gear is cheap. 

Ahhh....but it can be.  When the sponsored kids get new gear every season, and pass down their last years stuff for a song...

Or the local dentist upgrades to the new model 'cause the new DPS skis match his new jacket...(ha ha...but...its kinda true).

I look for used ski gear in the local classifieds from time-to-time.  Pretty big ski market here.  Saw a Volkl V-werks Katana, last years model, for sale a couple of weeks ago.  Only hitch?  Seller required whoever bought them to also take two other pair of used-but-not-abused skis off his hands so he didn't have to haul them to goodwill.  Price?, with Marker Kingpin bindings?  75 bucks.  I was third in line...heavy sigh...

If were me, I'd still consider digging apart an old, trashed pair of AT boots with the inserts for a pin binding.  Then, peel the sole of a climbing boot back, and with a dremel tool, get that insert to fit.  Glue the sole back on.  Voila...tech binding compatible climbing boot.  Then find a pair of dynafit front ends and call 'er good.

Luc-514 wrote: That old binding is a Kandahar binding aka bear trap

Saw similar in a Zermatt ski museum on skis that were 100 years old...

Anyone remember the inserts Chouinard made for their old front throw tele binding?  Was a toe piece that fit over a climbing boot and added a duck bill to fit a tele binding.  Still think some small amount of talent could take a pair of trashed plastic telly boots and carve out a front toe piece to fit a climbing boot...

Brian in SLC wrote:

Saw similar in a Zermatt ski museum on skis that were 100 years old...

Anyone remember the inserts Chouinard made for their old front throw tele binding?  Was a toe piece that fit over a climbing boot and added a duck bill to fit a tele binding.  Still think some small amount of talent could take a pair of trashed plastic telly boots and carve out a front toe piece to fit a climbing boot...

That could be quite straightforward with 3D printing.

Nick Goldsmith wrote: my Asolo Eiger GV  805g 

What size though? All the weights I listed are for US 14 boots, they are a fair bit heavier than what's listed on manufacturers websites (typically a 27 mondo shell). 

As well, one of the downsides to AT boots is getting a good crampon fit. The La Sportiva AT boots have a lot of rocker in the forefoot and combined with the toe welt shape it makes any modern standard bail a difficult fit. I made some new toe bails out of Petzl Side-lock heel bails to work with my Sportiva AT boots.

 as I said up thread if you live out west or are heading up into Hunnington ravine AT boots make perfect sense. If you live as I do in the east and 99% of the ski approaches are green circles then climbing boots are the ticket. You folks do whatever  you want but you do look like dumb asses trying to convince me that I have to climb in ski boots because they are supposedly so much lighter than my climbing boots.. ... 

I’ve got a pair of 404s still in the box brand new. $200 if you want em.
The larger size.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:  as I said up thread if you live out west or are heading up into Hunnington ravine AT boots make perfect sense. If you live as I do in the east and 99% of the ski approaches are green circles then climbing boots are the ticket. You folks do whatever  you want but you do look like dumb asses trying to convince me that I have to climb in ski boots because they are supposedly so much lighter than my climbing boots.. ... 

I feel the same when I see someone trying to XC with AT/tele gear or the people on snowshoes when its only 6" deep!

 MORE STUFF MORE STUFF!!!

Mark Pilate wrote:Nothing about modern skimo gear is cheap. 

I got my Atomic Backland Carbons for $150 used. And a pair of almost new Dyanfit Stokes for $50

And Nick you sound like you're a blast at parties...

Brian in SLC wrote:

Ahhh....but it can be.  When the sponsored kids get new gear every season, and pass down their last years stuff for a song...

Or the local dentist upgrades to the new model 'cause the new DPS skis match his new jacket...(ha ha...but...its kinda true).

I look for used ski gear in the local classifieds from time-to-time.  Pretty big ski market here.  Saw a Volkl V-werks Katana, last years model, for sale a couple of weeks ago.  Only hitch?  Seller required whoever bought them to also take two other pair of used-but-not-abused skis off his hands so he didn't have to haul them to goodwill.  Price?, with Marker Kingpin bindings?  75 bucks.  I was third in line...heavy sigh...

If were me, I'd still consider digging apart an old, trashed pair of AT boots with the inserts for a pin binding.  Then, peel the sole of a climbing boot back, and with a dremel tool, get that insert to fit.  Glue the sole back on.  Voila...tech binding compatible climbing boot.  Then find a pair of dynafit front ends and call 'er good.

DPS makes great rock skis IMO, I still have 2 pairs.

Also, Brian, left fork or the Y going up??? You may be doing it wrong...

Take a look at these:  

https://www.daymakertouring.com

You could use any old janky pair of skis and bindings.  I bought them for occasional touring use and they work great.

Tim Dolan wrote: Take a look at these:  

https://www.daymakertouring.com

You could use any old janky pair of skis and bindings.  I bought them for occasional touring use and they work great.

Alpine trekkers 2.0

Linnaeus wrote:

What size though? All the weights I listed are for US 14 boots, they are a fair bit heavier than what's listed on manufacturers websites (typically a 27 mondo shell). 

As a rule of thumb (or toe?), boot weight for a given model is roughly proportional to the square of the mondo size. I'm a mondo 30 and every AT boot I've owned has weighed about 25% more than the manufacturer's stated weight for a mondo 27. Grossly unfair to those of us with big feet who indulge in skimo racing.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:  as I said up thread if you live out west or are heading up into Hunnington ravine AT boots make perfect sense. If you live as I do in the east and 99% of the ski approaches are green circles then climbing boots are the ticket. You folks do whatever  you want but you do look like dumb asses trying to convince me that I have to climb in ski boots because they are supposedly so much lighter than my climbing boots.. ... 

Well, I'm not sure anyone is trying to convince anyone else to climb everything in AT (skimo) boots. I certainly am not. This thread is about approach ski set ups and has drifted to the various merits of AT/skimo gear for approaching and then using them for the subsequent climbing. For long approaches, even if mellow, I find AT gear superior in every way (weight, comfort, speed). Depending on the climbing objective it might make sense to simply climb in your AT boots to simplify the day. Or maybe it doesn't make any sense at all and you do a boot change out of AT or simply approach on Silvrettas. I think the bigger point is that a lot of climbing is easily done in a modern AT boot.

 If you are essentially roadside cragging in Vermont, or if you are using approach skis to save 1/4 mile of post holing up a green circle, then I agree with you Nick the AT gear is overkill. If it's a 5-10 mile approach through low density snow in the mountains, the opposite is true. That said, last time I went to Huntington we walked in and out in Nepal Extremes :) (those were as heavy as my modern AT boots!)

Splitboard and associated bindings. Climbing boots can be used and the binding kicker helps support heelside turns on the deproach. Repurpose an old board with conversion kit (Voile), or buy used stuff. In ski mode, the fat stubbies float well and you can get through thick trees okay.

Ok, let’s beat this horse from a different perspective.   Many are focused on the boot angle and weight.  Pick ANY ice or mixed route....then line up every boot choice on the spectrum from TC Pro rock shoes, to fruit boots thru lightweight mtn boots on up to AT boots and full Alpine.  Tell any climber to grab a pair of boots to lead the route.  No matter what the route was, NOBODY would walk up and grab the AT boots.  We agree?

 Now take the opposite approach (literally).   the approach.  Line up a spectrum of skis. From skinny kick waxed xc racing skis to BC to tele to Skinned AT to Alpine GS skis.  You have to ski 10 miles out and back in rolling terrain.  Again, nobody chooses the AT skis with skins.  You’d choose a longer and narrower fishscaled BC ski to cruise and glide, rather than slog, those miles.

Put em together and what do you have?  

This, or.....this, or....maybethis.....

In fact the ideal here locally would almost be a fruit boot blended With a very fast —almost classic XC racing— edged BC ski for anything but steep couloirs.  Gonna Pursue that angle.

Seriously though, question for you hard core AT guys...my only reference is my 2016 Tecnica Cochises... do these suck on the scale of AT boots?  Cuz I’d never go that route for anything that didn’t involve steep and challenging alpine/couloir skiing and relatively short approaches (<12 miles round trip or so)