Using an Equalette, where do you clove-hitch to?

When using an equalette to build an anchor where do you attach your clove-hitch carabiner? (I mean: "you got to the ledge that you like, you place three (or more) pieces, you build an equalette anchor and then you decide it is time to secure yourself so that you can ask to be taken off belay, where do you clip yourself?")
To one of the protections/bolts?
To one of the two strands between the knots?

thanks

two the two strands between the limiter knots. like a sliding x, flip one then clip both.

but my real recommendation: ditch the equalette. john long said it was a bad idea after all.

Anchors come in and out of style...

You tie a knot in it to make a master point.  If you don't know that you should probably get a mentor/guide/instruction before multi-pitch climbing.  If you only have two anchor points you have no redundancy (single strand loop) with an Equalette so just use a cordelette

Chris Blatchley wrote: two the two strands between the limiter knots. like a sliding x, flip one then clip both.

but my real recommendation: ditch the equalette. john long said it was a bad idea after all.

I thought that is where I should hang the ATC?

And waaaaitaminute, I heard of the equalette because of John Long, did he change his mind?

Roots wrote: Anchors come in and out of style...

^

Niccolo Gallio wrote:

I thought that is where I should hang the ATC?

And waaaaitaminute, I heard of the equalette because of John Long, did he change his mind?

yes. he discovered that the dynamical equalization wouldn't really happen because of a clutching effect of the rope friction around the carabiner, so most of the load would end up on one piece anyway.

Roots wrote: Anchors come in and out of style...

What is the current trend for (trad) anchors with more than two rigging points?

Brian wrote: You tie a knot in it to make a master point.  If you don't know that you should probably get a mentor/guide/instruction before multi-pitch climbing.  If you only have two anchor points you have no redundancy (single strand loop) with an Equalette so just use a cordelette

I did not know that the contraption in the picture was considered an equalette. Also I thought that if one ties a master point then the solution is named “cordelette” and it doesn’t have the “self-equalization” properties that the equalette is supposed to have (up to a certain point)

Niccolo Gallio wrote:

What is the current trend for (trad) anchors with more than two rigging points?

Use the rope.  Don't worry about equalization.  Worry about extension.  Most of all, worry about solid pieces so that nothing else really matters.

JaredG wrote:

Use the rope.  Don't worry about equalization.  Worry about extension.  Most of all, worry about solid pieces so that nothing else really matters.

 Ok, can you link any good resource about using rope for anchor building?

Thanks!

JaredG wrote:

Use the rope.  Don't worry about equalization.  Worry about extension.  Most of all, worry about solid pieces so that nothing else really matters.

ive tried using the rope and found it slightly annoying, and the thought of needing to tackle some unforseen clusterfuck of an unconscious partner, emergency rappel, or what-have-you... i dont mind the 0.05 ounces that a chordalette weighs...

SARRR has some good test reading material on anchors

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fapp.box.com%2Fs%2Fopaicsyxu6857eyo35riigtd3b9eqe2p

Chris Cragsocks wrote: SARRR has some good test reading material on anchors

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fapp.box.com%2Fs%2Fopaicsyxu6857eyo35riigtd3b9eqe2p

Wow that’s some reading!

Thanks!

Chris Blatchley wrote:he discovered that the dynamical equalization wouldn't really happen because of a clutching effect of the rope friction around the carabiner, so most of the load would end up on one piece anyway.

But not in the original equalette. See picture in next post. The concept was to use a pair of lockers to individually clip the two strands between the limiter knots. So the lockers could freely slide between the two knots.

Still, people naturally started varying the original equalette including clipping in just one locker to the two strands via a sliding X - so to still be captured between the two limiting knots.

And the “clutching effect” concerned the sliding X as you noted. Testing that Long published indicated that the original equalette distributed loads better than the sliding X.

Niccolo Gallio wrote:
And waaaaitaminute, I heard of the equalette because of John Long, did he change his mind?

I recall two issues with the equalette, issues that came out in discussions after the equalette was "published" in Long's anchor book.

A major one was if one anchor side failed in an FF2, there could be extension. In that case, the belayer could also load the anchor by falling until caught by the other limiter knot / leg.  Adding  that harsh force to that from arresting the falling leader increased the chance of complete anchor failure, if not belay failure due to belayer getting jerked around.

The other issue I recall was increased time to build the rig, though at the time this was debated ad nauseum.

The thing that was relatively attractive about the original equalette was better equalization than most else ... so much so that it was advertised as a good rig for someone who may not be very good at judging whether they have good individual gear placements;  because the ‘equalized’ sum might be just good enough. But this ‘benefit’ was soundly criticized since a leader who can not judge gear placements has no business leading.

I and many of my partners tried the equalette when it first came out (we were beginners).  But none currently use it.

Illustration of the original equalette.

Niccolo Gallio wrote:

I did not know that the contraption in the picture was considered an equalette. Also I thought that if one ties a master point then the solution is named “cordelette” and it doesn’t have the “self-equalization” properties that the equalette is supposed to have (up to a certain point)

They sell these contraptions I heard referred to as equalette, webolette, and equalizer (Metolius).  They have sewn loops in each end. That is what I was referring to and thought the OP was referring to.  .  

Bill Lawry wrote:

.......

I and many of my partners tried the equalette when it first came out (we were beginners).  But none currently use it.

Thanks Bill, interesting points. What's your most used anchor type when using 3 or more placements?

I've never seen anyone use one-

Learn to tie in with the rope and you can ditch the dead weight .  

Niccolo Gallio wrote:

Thanks Bill, interesting points. What's your most used anchor type when using 3 or more placements?

For pitching out a route, I usually use a knotted cordalette - 20 feet tied in a loop. If the anchor gear is widely spaced, a sling can usually be added to one of the legs.

Link below leads to a good pic under section “Equalizing Anchors With A Cordalette.”

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Cordelette.htm

... tied much like the web-o-lette pic posted above by Brian. 

Still, I think it good to keep an open mind about alternatives such as rigging with the rope. And I’d climb with someone who wanted to rig their anchors with an equalette.

Zay Ban wrote:

ive tried using the rope and found it slightly annoying, and the thought of needing to tackle some unforseen clusterfuck of an unconscious partner, emergency rappel, or what-have-you... i dont mind the 0.05 ounces that a chordalette weighs...

Your reasoning here is often used as a reason to avoid the rope anchor. If you find yourself in a very fucked up situation like your leader takes a bad fall, is unresponsive, etc. escaping or dealing with the rope anchor is really the least of your problems. If that is truly a concern, I think it's wise to honestly ask yourself if you're equipped to handle everything else that might need to be done to extricate yourself and your partner from said predicament.